The Closing Institute - Full Arch Sales Critique

November, 2023

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Bart Knellinger: Hey, guys. What’s going on? Hello.

Woman 1: Hello.

Sabrina Albari: He-hello.

Bart: Hey. How is everybody doing?

Woman 1: Good. How are you?

Bart: I’m doing good, doing good. You all closing arches or what?

Woman 1: Yeah, it’s kind of a slow month. You know about this.

Bart: You better pick it up then.

Woman 1: Yeah. We’re trying.

Bart: [laughing] Cool. I’ll just give everybody a minute here to log on.

Sabrina: Hello.

Bart: Hello.

Sabrina: How are you?

Bart: I’m good. Such a calming voice you have, might I say. I need like…I need like your voice to be in this office sometimes. It’s usually like, “Hey, Bart I need this. I need that.” I need your very soothing voice. [laughing].

Sabrina: Thank you.

Bart: I’m just giving everybody a minute to log on here guys.

Woman 2: Hello.

Bart: Hello

Keisha Roberts: Hello

Bart: Hey, hey. I can hear everybody.

Female Participant: [inaudible]

Bart: Don’t say anything crazy. I can hear you. You’re not muted yet.

Woman 2: Yeah. Hello.

Keisha: Hi, Hello.

Bart: Hey, guys. Hey, while we’re waiting for everybody to log on, anybody got a good…anybody got a good consult that you want to share? Anybody closed a tough one or get run over by a tough one. Either one works for my entertainment purposes.

Woman 2: I had a guy yesterday who he got pre-approved for 45,000, but the rates are a little high for him and he does not want to pay the monthly payments. Everything was good. The consult was great. He just got to the end and he was like, “Yeah. No, it’s a little high.”

Bart: [inaudible]. What the interest rate?

Woman 2:: It’s the interest rates. Yeah.

Bart: What’d you say?

Woman 2: I said, “Do you have any more…do you need cash to put down so we can make the loan a little bit lower, get your payments down?” He’s like, “You know, I want to think about it. This is way too high for me.”

Bart: Yeah. I would just say, “What do you think is not high as far as an interest rate?” What was his interest rate?

Woman 2: The interest rate was 5.99, which is not that bad.

Bart: It’s not, but always ask him say, “What kind of interest rate were you expecting? What do you think? What would you consider like a reasonable interest rate?” That’s all you say.

Woman 2: Okay.

Bart: That’s it. And then what if he says, “I don’t know 8%, 7%? I mean prime is like eight and a half right now. You know what I mean? So who’s going to really expect lower than that, but let’s just say he said 8%, what would you say?

Woman 2: Okay, then can you put anything down towards this, and maybe we can make your payments a little bit while moving with the high rate is?

Bart: Why don’t you just say, “Hey, how about I do this? How about I just mark off 5% of the total. I’ll prepay the 5% interest for you and you effectively are in an 8% interest rate?”

Woman 2: Okay. I’ll keep that one in mind.

Bart: What is that to you? $2,300. That’s a $2,300 discount to get it done now. Otherwise, you got a $45,000 on a liability. So the interest rate is just a money objection, but you can’t handle a money objection and so they give you a number. So it’s the same thing as if someone said, “45,000, that’s too high.” The line doesn’t change.

Woman 2: Right. Well, what’s comfortable for you?

Bart: Wow, I mean what kind of…what kind of price point were you expecting? What kind of price point do you think would be reasonable? What type of number did you have in your head that you were going to invest with? And you have to get a number so you know where to go. But interest rate is…is easier because he’s already done. You said he’s excited, in principle. Hey, everything is agreed in concept. I want it. He’s got urgency. No problem. He’s approved. It’s you know, if the interest rate was 27%, it might be a little tougher but 12 is already low. So you’re not even going to have to move that much, but that’s what I say. Say, “Listen. Instead of going back and forth, giving you a bunch of homework going to your banks or me going through…jump through all these hoops just to lower the interest rate, why don’t I just prepay the interest for you?” Right? So let’s look at like we’re really close together right now. It’s 45,000. You’re at 12.9. You want to be at 8, so we’re talking 5% here. We’re talking really $2,300. Why don’t I just [inaudible crosstalk] principle $2,300 right now, and that’s like me paying the interest. So that means you’re effectively on 8%.

Woman 2: I’m waiting for him to call today. So I left him with…


Bart: You muted yourself.


Woman 2: There we go. So I said I was waiting for him to call me back today actually. He’s going to call back later on. So I’ll say what you told me now and take it from there.

Bart: Cool. You guys keep that in mind with the interest rates. You guys do primes at 8, eight and a half. So no one is going to be like, “Oh, I want a 3% interest rate,” because they’re not going to get that anywhere. It’s impossible. But again, so what? It’s like, “Hey, you’ve got…” All he has to do is sign the paper and you’re done. It’s paid. That’s 45,000 bucks in the bank. You guys can’t… you don’t want to put $45,000 in jeopardy over two grand or $25,000.

Woman 2: Hmm-mm. Right.

Bart: Just not enough [inaudible].

Woman 2: We’re trying to wrap them all up before Miami to get going.

Bart: Yeah. All right, cool. Well, that was a good one, guys. Listen, we got a good call to review today. It’s uh… it’s one with a client that’s been a client of mine for a while, Dr. Ferber, and Brandy is a treatment coordinator. There’s some things they did really well. They did some things a little bit differently. It’s one of those situations where the doctor gets into financing, or not financing but actually closing and doing a financial presentation, which we don’t have often on the videos.

So I thought I wanted to share that with you guys and kind of go through this because I think there’s a couple of really good lessons to learn from it. Just so you know, they didn’t close this patient there, but the patient, they actually rented Brandy ended up getting the patient back in like a week later and they ended up closing the patient.

So we had a good outcome on this particular video, but I don’t want to waste a whole lot of time talking because I’m going to need a whole hour to go through this. Keep in mind if you guys have questions, just type questions or comments or anything you want me to see since everyone is going to be muted. Just write them into the chat. Just write them into the chat.
Caitlin is right next to me and she’ll let me know what they are and I can stop or I can answer…answer all your questions and concerns and stuff like that at the end. Okay? So anybody that’s not muted go ahead and mute, and I will share the screen. We’ll get going here. [pause]

Okay, here we go. Turn your volume up. The patient is fairly soft-spoken. So just turn your volume up on your computer so you can hear everything. And it’s funny, she actually wears her mask pretty much the whole time. You know they…You know they got some self-confidence here when COVID has been over for like two years and they’re still wearing their mask every day. All right, here we go.

Brandy: My name is Brandy and I’m a treatment coordinator with Dr. Ferber. Basically, it’s my responsibility to figure out what you have going on, what your goals are for the day, and then we’ll do [inaudible] down. We meet with Dr. Ferber for a brief exam, and uhm see how you get from point A to point B.

Patient: Okay.

Brandy: Sounds good?

Patient: Yeah.

Brandy: All right, Awesome. So [inaudible]. So um you know tell me. I understand that you want to work on your lowers. I have a note.

Patient: I have a [inaudible]

Brandy: Are you looking to work on both upper and lower?

Patient: [inaudible].

Brandy: Gotcha. So are you saying you’re looking for a good[?] upper denture and a lower end here[?].

Bart: Okay. So one thing to keep in mind here guys so that you don’t get off…so that you don’t get off on the wrong foot right when you guys start, always focus on a pain point. So even if they write in like, “Hey, I’m coming in because I have a lower denture that’s loose and I don’t like it,” instead of coming in and saying, “Hey, I understand that you want to make some improvements to your lower denture,” you would say things like, “Hey, I understand your…your lower denture is giving you some problems. It’s slipping. It’s becoming difficult to eat or becoming a little bit more difficult to speak and just overall day to day is just kind of a pain. Can you kind of give me a little bit of background into what that’s like?”

Because you don’t…you want them right out of the gate. The way that you guys get into rapport is them discussing the pain points and how it’s affecting them. So you want to keep everything there. If you word it as in a treatment like, “I understand you’re looking for this or that,” you’re going to notice the entire dialogue is going to be about the treatments right off the bat. And you know what treatments lead to, how long does this take, how long does that take, how much is this, how much is that. It gets like crazy really fast.

So Brandy did a great job stating her intention and she was off on the right foot. It’s just the verbiage that she used opened up for the patient to start immediately talking about a treatment, which is kind of like we don’t even want to talk about the treatment at all in the first 10. That’s what we want the doctor to do. Okay?

Brandy: Gotcha. Yeah, you know what? That’s honestly the best way to go when you’re looking that way if you’re trying to save money, of course, because the upper denture has that hard palate. Typically, people do really well with it, suction to the roof of your mouth. Whereas the lower, a lot of people are uncomfortable with it because there’s nothing for it to suction to. So when you eat and talk, it flops around. Patient: With the ones at the top, can you eat?

Brandy: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, most people do really well with just a regular denture on top. But the lower, you know, because there’s just that soft palate your tongue is always moving around and so it kicks up a lot of time. So having at least some sort of [inaudible]

Patient: That’s what I’m looking for.

Brandy: would support it. Yeah. Okay. So have you been to other places that you know?

Patient: I visited[?] other places but just one time. That’s it, then they check something out, but I just heard about [inaudible]

Brandy: Okay, awesome. Yeah.

Patient: Yeah. I mean [inaudible]

Brandy: Oh yeah. I mean this is what we specialize in for sure.

Patient: Maybe I just prefer to do that.

Brandy: Okay. Were you having any pain or anything going on now?

Patient: Uh-um.

Brandy: Okay. That’s good.

Patient: I lost one teeth in the front. I had three of them in. That just don’t look too good.

Brandy: Gotcha. So that’s what got you in, is you lost the front tooth and now you [inaudible]

Patient: I have to [inaudible] and then, now I just want to do that.

Brandy: Gotcha. Okay.

Patient: I want it somehow. I want to eat. I can do none of that. I just want to be happy.

Brandy: Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Patient: I wanna, because I would laugh and the [inaudible]. I wanna smile again.

Brandy: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean you’re a beautiful woman. Of course, you want to be able to smile.

Patient: I wanna look good.

Brandy: Right. You want to be able to smile.

Patient: I’m all ready to do it.

Brandy: Be confident. Yeah. I understand. When you don’t [inaudible] your smile, it takes away from your whole personality.

Patient: Yes. I can do it no more.

Brandy: Gotcha.

Patient: You told me it’ll take a couple of weeks.

Brandy: Typically from the first appointment, right? If we can get started today with records and things like that, I mean…

Bart: Okay. So when she’s given her the lean-ish[?], she’s kind of given Brandy a lead in. Right? I would say, “Gosh, you know what, so when did all this start? You know, when did you first start losing teeth? When did you notice a difference?” You want to get her because that’s your opportunity to show the patient that you’re interested and show the patient that you care, right? That you really care and that you’re interested in the back story.

And guys, the more they talk about the backstory, the more you’re going to start to understand what kind of person you’re talking to. The more you’re going to understand their perspective, their point of view. The more you’re going to understand all of that and it helps you with all of your framing on everything you do.

And that’s really the part that is going to build rapport and build the trust for you. Okay? A lot of people feel as though they walk through life and they’re never heard, feels like people don’t care or they feel, “Hey, I don’t want to sound like I’m complaining or anything,” and some of them just want somebody to talk to. It’s not a waste of time to let them go in detail about it. Just resist the urge to jump right into the treatments.

Once you start talking about the treatments, the emotion is completely lost. There’s no…there’s no more emotion, right? It’s all mechanical and every single treatment comes with a price tag. Every single treatment comes with a process. Every single treatment comes with pain. Every single treatment comes with anxiety. There’s all of these things that I don’t really want her to have to focus on right now. I just want to understand where she is, how we arrived here, and know a little bit about her story.

Once I feel like I’ve done that and I’m in…I’m in rapport and I built a little bit of trust, then I will transition to the desired state and what it is that we’re trying to accomplish here. What is the outcome that we’re trying to accomplish? What’s best for you? What type of quality of life, then we go to the second ten and that’s when the doctor presents one treatment. So the first ten you want to stay as far away from it as possible.

But a lot of times patients can trick you guys into getting in there because they’ll come in with something in they’ll say, “Hey, I want all on four. I want implant-supported dentures. I want this. I want that.” To me, it’s in one ear, out the other ear. As far as the first ten goes, I don’t care because you can’t assume that the patient understands what the clinical outcome and what the repercussions of said treatment is. You have to assume that they’re not clear on that, right? “So it’s okay. Yeah, I understand, great. So give me a little background here,” and then you get right back to where you need to be, which is where are they now and how did they arrive at this point. That’s going to give you all the ammo that you need to be able to close and create urgency and build rapport.

Brandy: Obviously, we can probably get you in next week.

Patient: [inaudible] What they’ll do, impression?

Bart: You see like how it jumps ahead? Now we’re in the third ten. You know what I mean? Second you start talking about, “We don’t…we don’t have a treatment recommendation yet, start on what? Start on what?” You know. You have to figure out where they are and where they want to be, then present a treatment plan. Then we have to close in concept, right? Money aside, time aside, everything aside, “Does this plan make sense to get you from here to here? Are we in conceptual agreement?” We have to be in conceptual agreement and they have to be excited about it, then we go into all that other stuff. But their patients are very good at asking questions and jumping you ahead. That’s why I like — if you guys didn’t uhm, haven’t attended the power session on pacing and leading, that’s exactly what that’s on right here. How to grab the…grab the dialogue from hello in pace and lead all the way through so that they don’t pull you off your mark.

Brandy: We’ll do it today like — So it’s a couple of appointments but honestly, what’s right — first appointment would be records, depending on what we do. Second appointment, you know, you can…

Bart: I’m gonna jump ahead a little bit here.

Brandy: Right? is supported by as many implants as possible.

Patient: Like what is the stake[?].

Brandy: Right. So you want permanent on bottom?

Patient: Are you going to take or maybe do the permanent?

Brandy: Or you can do snap-in. There’s a couple of different implant support.

Patient: [inaudible]

Brandy: You’re saying that you can do permanent. You wanna do a permanent?

Patient: When you do the permanent, could they put two? When you do the permanent, how many implants they put in?

Brandy: Four to 6, depending on how many they can get.

Bart: So the thing is she shouldn’t even have any of these questions. You know what I mean? It’s really not her concern. All we need to know, right, is what level of function are you looking to get back to. What level of aesthetics or cosmetics are you looking to get back to, and are you looking from a longevity perspective? Are you looking to say, “Hey, I’m done with this. I want you guys to do this. Do it the right way and I don’t want to have to worry about it,” right? Or do you want me to do just enough to kind of reduce your pain point but something that’s not going to last very long? You really have to ask the right questions to get that patient to articulate the quality of life that they want. And once you know the quality of life, their job is over. They don’t tell us how many implants to place or whether it’s going to be removed or whether it’s going to be fixed. They’re not qualified to tell us or guide us or say anything about it.

They can ask questions after we presented the treatment plan, but to brainstorm with the patient is going to be counter-productive and it will it’ll kind of take…it’ll it’ll kind of take the wind out of the doctor’s sales a little bit. You guys want to use the doctors in that part to say, “Listen, there’s, you know, Dr. Ferber can do so many different things. I wouldn’t even begin to try to say how exactly he would do it. What I can tell you is that from a teeth point of view, if you’re dealing with the issues that you’re telling me about and you want to get back to A, B, and C like you’ve told me, he’s gonna find a really good, creative, safe, and predictable way to get you there.

But that is completely customized from one patient to another, and he’s going to go through that with you in detail exactly what he thinks is going to be the fastest easiest way to get you there with the best results. Does that make sense? Okay. So let’s wait on Dr. Ferber for that.” So you’re just getting…you’re getting the before and you’re getting the after. The doctors are filling in the middle, right? We’re not going back and forth through treatments or differences because it’s not relevant. We don’t know if it’s even relevant to talk about a denture. We don’t know if it’s relevant to talk about uhm, all on four. We don’t really know yet because we haven’t really gotten…gotten into the outcome for this particular patient.

Brandy: Right. We want to do as many as possible so that the arches if you will, right? is supported by as many implants as possible. So this one here has four.

Patient: Yeah.

Brandy: This one also has four.

Patient: Yeah. I just want it to have four.

Brandy: We’ll it’s the same price, whether it’s 4 or 6. We’re just trying to put as many in as possible to support that.

Patient: How long [inaudible]?

Brandy: [Laugh] Yeah, so…[Laugh]

Patient: Once they get it in, how long [inaudible]?

Brandy: You’re going to be eating soft foods, right? No matter what you do, right? No matter whether it’s a snap-in, which…

Bart: Do you guys think this patient has urgency? What do you think is her urgency level, high or low? What do you think? It’s high. Right? Super high. She’s asking a bunch of buying questions, you know. She’s actually, even in the manner in which she’s asking the questions guys, anybody that’s asking these types of questions in succession shows that they’re over-eager, that they’re super anxious to get it done, that they there right at the end, right? So it shows massive urgency because these are all buying questions. How long is it going to take? Do they put two? Do they put four? She’s asking like she’s getting ready to buy something, you know. So you know that you’ve got urgency here. It’s just uhm, the call is kind of off. The dialogue is off-topic a little bit. And the reason why is because Brandy is so nice. She’s answering all the questions for the patient. The problem is the questions the patient has, right? Brandy is being accommodating right now, right? She’s accommodating the questions, but what it’s doing is allowing the patient to pace and lead the dialogue, right, in an area that’s not going to get you closer to the close and the patient, the ironic part about it, the patient is trying to understand but the questions the patient is asking in the time frame in which they’re being asked is going to cause much more confusion for her than anything. It’s going to be an overload of information.

She’s not going to be able to understand right now. And then who knows what the doctors going to say when the doctor comes in? So you can’t be accommodating in that way. You guys have to guide the dialogue and…and know when to say, “Hey, we’re going to get to all of that. Dr. Ferber is going to go through A to Z. My job right now is to be clear on two things, where you are, how you feel, and how you got there, and then where you want to be.” Right? The outcome. That’s what we’re doing right now. Then we’re going to get the scan, then the doctor is going to come back in. He’s going to fill in the middle and show you how he can get you from point A to point B. So you have to just know when to…when to restate that, and then you can grab hold of the dialogue again.

Patient: I had one of those. What kind of food?

Brandy: Apple sauce, mashed potatoes, noodles, meatballs, you know. You can have that. You know, so like no stake, no chips.

Patient: I don’t worry about that but what about the top?

Brandy: Well the top is not going to be an issue at all, right, because with the top, you’re going to heal from any extractions. They’re going to do Alveo, which is…

Patient: It had not been straight anyway. I got boutique teeth.

Brandy: Got you. Oh, on the lower?

Patient: On the [inaudible] right there. This one little teeth right there.

Brandy: And then the upper [inaudible]

Patient: I’m not getting a lot of correction.

Brandy: Gotcha. Gotcha. [inaudible]. Well, good thing, then you won’t have a lot of healing time. You know what I mean? You’re not going to have a lot of downtime.

Patient: So once you pull the teeth, you all put the false teeth in, right?

Brandy: Correct, right. Typically, there will be a healing denture, right? And then we want your gums to be able to settle. Even if you don’t have any extractions on top, we’re probably going to do some alveo, which is bone smoothing, right?

Bart: I’m gonna fast forward a little bit here.

Patient: Things that I want to do, and so.

Brandy: Uh-hm. It’s right to get a second opinion.

Patient: I’m just making sure my gums, it has been like this for years. My regular dentist has told me, “You do this. This is my best option before you can get implant.”

Brandy: Yeah.

Patient: But then I went to this one person last week. They want to start on the job right away, so I’m getting another opinion. I went to Clinic Ferber because when I looked on tv, few people came here, another doc who came here. He’s a Jehovah’s Witness, so when he told me about it, I wanted to get a second opinion because when they showed me the same thing [inaudible]. So I’m coming here.

Brandy: Okay. So you did your homework.

Patient: Yeah. I had my homework done.

Brandy: All right. Awesome, so then you know…it sounds to me like you…

Patient: I know what I want. It’s not like I come here…

Bart: Guys, this kind of some of the things that you listen for some of the nuance, right? She said she’s a Jehovah’s Witness. What’s one thing that is really important to a Jehovah’s Witness as far as marketing the factor Jehovah’s Witness? It’s kind of spreading the word and talking to people, right? They are kind of like known for that. So I’m sure that has a play in terms of… I mean there’s a reason why she’s wearing the mask for now. She said she only has two teeth on the top. I’m sure she doesn’t like it when she’s talking to people how they perceive her to be with no teeth. Those are all little things that you’re going to get with the backstory and that’s…that’s really what they’re buying.

They’re buying the feeling. She’s buying how people are going to perceive her when she has her teeth. You know what I mean? When she looks good, when she looks pretty, when she looks professional, she’s a better representation, you know. So it is little things like that. If you…if you pick up on them in the first ten, little things like that allow you to dig to find out really what is their core motivation right now in this moment because it doesn’t sound like it’s food to me with her. With her, it completely sounds to me like it’s aesthetically driven at this point, and it probably has to do not only with how she feels she looks, but I bet when she’s talking to everybody else, it’s more like how everybody else is going to perceive her. And it might have something to do with, you know, the religion and it might not, but those are… those are areas that you guys just listen for. Anything unique or different, that’s what you’re listening for and paying attention to.

Brandy: To look…to find some stuff.

Patient: I’m getting around that. I’m not playing games. I want to smile. I want to look good.

Brandy: [Laughing] Gotcha.

Patient: I’m going field service. I have to smile. I have to look good. It’s a provocative job.

Brandy: Of course, and you want to feel good about yourself.

Patient: And I just retired.

Brandy: Well, good for you. Congratulations.

Bart: Field service. What’s a question you would ask? “What are you doing in the field service? Oh, what does that mean? So, so what exactly is field service?” I would…I know what it is. They run around talking to everybody, right? But when is that happening? You know what I’m saying, guys? Pay attention to those little things.

Patient: Something nice that I did, he did talk to me. He called my number.

Brandy: Dr. Ferber?

Patient: Yeah.

Brandy: Oh, yeah, Dr. Ferber is awesome.

Patient: So that was a nice thing. He said he’s going to look after me.

Brandy: Yeah, he’ll take care of you.

Patient: I want to [inaudible] because it’s not about me and my smile. It’s taking care of me, not about all. I know there are so many things that I have to do or whatever.

Brandy: Sure.

Patient: It’s all about me.

Brandy: That’s why I was saying the designer and stuff. you know. We want you to be happy with your smiles, so we want to make sure that it’s the look that you’re wanting. Right? So we have all this great technology to do 3D intraoral scanning, but also to do the facial…

Bart: That patient just said what every single patient thinks all the time, and the best way to show them that it’s all about them is keep it all about them. The treatment is not them. Keep it about them. Where they are, how they got there, and what they want. It keeps them out of the treatment, right? You guys are going to show them that to where it’s easy to understand. It’s a no-brainer. They’re a good candidate like you guys, that’s your job to do, but keep everything else about them and they’re going to appreciate that.

Brandy: And to make sure that the teeth fit well. We have to set the standard. Why don’t we go ahead and get the CT scan? Dr. Ferber will take a look and see how many implants can be placed and talk to you about the procedure.

Patient: Yeah, I want to get started right away.

Brandy: Okay, yeah. Awesome. Well, let’s go ahead then to the CT room. I am going to have to ask you to take off your earrings…

Bart: I’m going to fast-forward you to the CT. You guys hear she just said, “I want to get started right away.” Pretty awesome.

Brandy: Just two.

Patient: That’s okay. She’ll be back home.

Brandy: All right, at some point so.

Patient: Oh believe me.

Brandy: But yes, my other one said, “Just move.”

Patient: [inaudible] They moved out. It was 23 years, they moved out. Now, 24, you’re married. I’m standing here, so the 27-year-old moved back at me.

Brandy: That’s nice. [inaudible]

Dr. Ferber: Hello, my dear.

Patient: Hi.

Dr. Ferber: Brian Ferber. Welcome back. Welcome back.

Patient: Thanks for calling me. That was nice.

Dr. Ferber: Absolutely. Let’s take a quick look under the hood. I’ll just take a look at your CAT scan.

Patient: You’re going to look at that now?

Dr. Ferber: Yeah.

Patient: All right. Where are you putting it, in room?

Brandy: Yeah. Just do a quick look.

Dr. Ferber: You’re going to do phenomenally well.

Patient: [inaudible]

Dr. Ferber: What’s that?

Patient: What do they look like? You can write to do something?

Dr. Ferber: This is the front. We’re looking it up. okay, great. You’re going to look much better. You can eat a lot better.

Patient: I know. I feel so not good.

Dr. Ferber: How does that affect your life on a day-to-day basis?

Patient: A lot. I can’t eat right.

Dr. Ferber: I know.

Brandy: Are you wearing the mask all the time?

Patient: Only when I’m out.

Dr. Ferber: It’s because of the teeth?

Patient: Yeah.

Dr. Ferber: How has that made you feel?

Patient: Not good.

Dr. Ferber: Yeah, tell me about it. Tell me the time it bothers you the most.

Patient: That one just came out. I have at least three. I was okay, then one just came out on the side. It’s like I’m gonna cry, so now I want to look nice.

Dr. Ferber: How’s it going to feel? What’s the first thing you’re going to do when you look great?
You’re going to take a selfie?

Patient: I’ll take a selfie. Anywhere I go, I take a selfie because Jehovah helped me.

Dr. Ferber: You’re Jehovah’s Witness?

Patient: Yes.

Dr. Ferber: I wish all my patients were Jehovah’s Witnesses and I’ll tell you why, because it drives me crazy when you have holidays.

Patient: Jehovah helped me do it. You know, with emotions, anxieties, stress, so I’m always happy.

Brandy: That’s wonderful. I did retire from the school board.

Dr. Ferber: I know. School board.

Bart: Something else to keep in mind, guys. All this happens in the first ten. While the patient is getting the CT scan, Brandy can talk to Dr. Ferber and say, “Hey, here’s the situation. Here’s where they were. Here’s why she’s here. Here’s the motivation. Here’s what she’s looking for,” boom, boom, boom. And then Dr. Ferber, instead of asking those questions, can just use them as a lead-in. “Okay, so I understand that,” boom, and he’s going to be able to get right to it there.

Patient: So they helped me through it, now I retired, this for me now. I should be able to get it.

Dr. Ferber: For your overall health, you got to do this.

Patient: For my health too.

Dr. Ferber: Here’s the story. On the bone, you got good bone. Top, you don’t have such great bones. My primary recommendation is we do a denture for you on top because most people do okay without dentures. You see great amount of this going. On the bottom, we’ll make you permanent teeth, so you’ll do great.

Bart: Okay, so my question here, I have…I have not heard at all any recap of wha-what type of clinical outcome she’s expecting here. I haven’t heard it. I don’t know what she wants in terms of function. I don’t know what she wants in terms of longevity. I don’t know what level of aesthetics she…that she’s looking for, right? So I’m not sure where the treatment plan is coming from because…because the treatment plan, guys, if you don’t have a way to anchor your recommendation based on an outcome. then the recommendation is…it’s pretty much subjective. It can be different — super different from one doctor to the next because we’re not really treating planning to a specific outcome.

I’m not sure where the treatment plan came from unless there was a previous conversation that I’m not privy to between these two where Dr. Ferber feels confident that he already knows exactly what the outcome is that she’s going towards, and if there was a previous conversation, that’s different. But if it wasn’t, let’s just say that this is the very first interaction, you…you don’t want to…you want to try to avoid making a recommendation without the outcome, right? Because the treatment plan is only a vehicle to achieve something. That’s how it’s decided, right? It’s like in a GPS. You can’t get the map without entering a destination. It calculates the most efficient way to arrive at a destination after you put the destination in. It’s the same thing, right? So always like if the doctor doesn’t get that information from the treatment coordinator, at least hopefully, they got the…what the pain points are and what that patient is going through. They can lead him with that understanding that you’re dealing with this, this, this. Okay. So let me ask you. Now, I took a look. There’s some good things. There’s obviously some area of concern. There’s a couple of different ways that I can go with this, but I want to make sure that we’re trying to attain the same goal here, right? So give me an idea. What are you looking for? Forget the treatment. What are you looking for in terms of longevity?

Let’s talk about longevity and what that means and what’s ideal for you. Let’s talk about aesthetics and what that means and what’s ideal for you. Let’s talk about the different levels of function, right, in the different levels of maintenance and let’s see what’s ideal for you because based on these answers, that’s going to guide how I’m going to approach the surgery and the uh, uh…the prosthetics as…as it pertains to this case. Does that sound fair? Yep. Okay,” and then you methodically go through it. Because if you do that, guys, you’re never going to put yourself in a position where the patient feels like you’re forcing something or the patient feels like you’re presenting it because you want them to do it, right, or it’s something that you want to sell. No, I don’t care what it is. All I care about is I feel like this can achieve that outcome. You change that outcome, I’ll change the treatment plan, but everything has to hinge on the outcome and I can’t tell the patient the outcome. I have to get the patient to voice the outcome to me so it’s like their treatment planning themselves.

Does that make sense, guys? If you don’t do it, you run the risk of looking like you’re making a recommendation because you want to sell it. And even if it doesn’t come off that way, I guarantee you, all of a sudden, when we start talking about money, that’s how they’re going to see it. That you’re pushing because you want to make that sale when it really should have nothing to do…I don’t care if it’s $5,000 or if it’s a $100,000 case to me, it doesn’t even factor into my mind. It doesn’t even factor into my way of thinking, right, because I’m always going to treatment plan to the patient. I’m always going to…like…like for me in my business, I’m always going to create a marketing plan for the goals of the client. It has nothing to do with the price. It has nothing to do with what’s in it. It’s all, “Hey, this is where the doctor is. This is where they want to be with their business within 12 or 18 months. Here’s what I think it needs,” and I’m the professional there so I tell you how it goes, and then we have to agree conceptually if it makes sense. If it doesn’t make sense, then we’ll go back and forth and talk about it until it does, then I can close, right? So that’s…that’s…my question is I’m not quite sure, and maybe there was a conversation that happened before, but it’s like, “Hey, we recommended a denture on top and this on the bottom,” maybe just clinically, from everything he saw in the CT scan, maybe it’s cut and dry. That’s the only way for him to do it. I don’t know, but my thing is always anchored on the outcome, always.

Patient: That’s what I thought I saw. I can get implants to the bottom?

Dr. Ferber: Yeah.

Patient: All right.

Dr. Ferber: We’ll make an outer removal of teeth on the bottom. We’ll make the denture on top. What will happen is you’ll come in. We’ll take out the teeth. We’ll put the implants in. We’ll take some records that day. You’ll come back the next day. We’ll have the teeth for you the next day. Then we’ll wait a few months and you’ll heal up fast.

Patient: I’ll have the dentures at that time.

Dr. Ferber: Yeah, the next day. Then we’re going to wait a few months. Then we’re going to make a second set of teeth for you after you’re all healed up and you’ll have those for years and years to come.

Patient: Okay.

Dr. Ferber: Total for everything for the top and for the bottom is going to be 30,000. How do you want to pay.

Patient: I want to do a down payment, cash.

Bart: Okay. So you see how abrupt that was. It was super fast, right? So we went through, “Hey, here’s where you are. Here’s what I would do,” ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. He’s got a really quick cadence. You know what I mean? And he’s got a very matter-of-fact tone. The tonality with. Dr. Ferber, very matter-of-fact, very quick, to the point, “Here’s what we can do,” boom, boom, boom. To him, he’s got this whole thing figured out and it’s simple. For me, it’s really easy for me to communicate with somebody like that because I can get somewhere really fast. Okay? Or you can run into issues here. Number one, typically guys, right, for you. Typically at this point in time, the rapport usually is going to be with the treatment coordinator and the patient, and the treatment coordinator had a lot more dialogue. So they have a little bit more trust built up than the doctor has at this point. The patient hasn’t brought up price, number one. Number two, I haven’t heard an agreement conceptually that “Yes, I want this.” Right? That she fully understands what he’s saying because he talks fast. You know what I mean? And he makes it sound simple, but if she has questions, what are the odds that a patient with that demeanor is going to interrupt and ask questions proactively to a doctor like Dr. Ferber? They’re very low, right? Just because of the…the way that he communicates. Matter of fact, he’s got a dominating tone, and it’s very quick. So even if she has questions, she’s thinking and he’s already on to the next subject before she really asked the question, and listen…

Dr. Ferber: Bart.

Bart: Oh, yeah, go ahead.

Dr. Ferber: I’m sorry. If I recall, there may have been a prior conversation between this lady and myself. Honestly, this is the kind of woman, I hate to say it, you need to control the conversation.

Bart: Oh, yeah. You need to do that with everybody.

Dr. Ferber: No, but she is really all over the place mentally. So we ended up closing her. I did her and she calls like all the time at 1:00 in the morning on the emergency line, you know, because she needs an adjustment and has an infection. She’s like off her rocker. I think that may have… because normally I’m not so curt and so quick with the patients, but I think with her, you had to be to corner her. Either we were going to do it…do it with her or she’s going to waste five hours of our time.

Bart: Yeah. Yeah, and I think, you know, there’s a way to do it where if you anchor on the outcome, it’s just safer because now it’s not really coming from you.

Dr. Ferber: I’m happy to watch this and for you to say that, that’s definitely something that we didn’t do and maybe we need to be stronger at for sure.

Bart: And then the other thing also, you know, in the way that you talk and you communicate, I can already tell you the part of this that you are naturally going to be very good at, right? And that is the part where you speak with very high certainty about, “Hey, here’s what I’m seeing on the CT. Here’s the situation,” boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Right? I understand where you want to be. I think you’re a perfect candidate to get there. This is going to be…this is going to be open and close on the bottom. This is going to be simple. I’m going to do this,” boom, boom, boom. “As far as the top, here’s what we’re going to do. Well, I’m going to do this. I think you’re a perfect candidate. You’re going to get an amazing, amazing outcome. I don’t see this lasting more…I think you’re going to see a humongous difference one week from today just getting you into your first teeth.” Right?

Like that part, that’s where you are going to shine with…with the way that you communicate. You know what I mean? With the way that you communicate, that’s where you’re going to shine. Here’s the thing. If you take the same tone in the same cadence from a clinical perspective in which you have that…that degree of certainty, that’s good because that’s your domain. You’re the professional and you have to dominate that always. You tell them, “If you know where they’re starting where they want to be, your job is to fill in the middle and give your opinion.” So you do that perfectly. When it comes to finance, when it comes to closing, closing in money has a different type of emotion with people, right? So if we take the same clinical cadence and tonality and apply it to closing financially, sometimes it can come off as we’re pushing, right? Make sense? But pushing not and push in the way of like motivating, I mean pushing the way of being pushed financially.

Dr. Ferber: I agree.

Bart: So in summary here, I think if we have the outcome and you anchor off the outcome, you’re in an infinitely better position, then before we even talk about price, you have to make sure that you slow down. Ask the patient, “Hey, so does all this make sense? How does this all sound? Is this kind of what you were expecting? Do you understand how everything I put together is going to get you everything that you want? Because the material that I chose, I chose it because we need something that’s going to last long term and something that’s going to be…something that’s going to be highly aesthetic. You don’t want something that’s going to look like a denture you told me, right? So that’s why I chose this material. Why did I choose this number of implants? Well, because we want it to last. Why is it fixed? Because you don’t want something that’s high maintenance.” So you have to connect every single dot back to the clinical outcome because then guess what? It’s not subjective anymore. It’s not subjective. “You told me these things and I listen to you, and here’s why I chose everything to give you everything.” So if they understand that, they’ll say, “Yeah, I get it.” And then once you gain agreement that that’s what they want, there’s two ways to go about it. Now, if you have private hit…private history with her and you’re like, “Man, this lady is going to waste time. I’m just going to triage this myself and get straight to it as quickly as possible,” there’s a time and a place for that. I don’t have a problem with it.

But if this was a normal situation where there wasn’t any type of dialogue or history, man, if you did your job and you came in, “Hey, this is what it is. You’re a perfect candidate. You’re going to get a great result. How does it sound?” They are super excited. They understand the treatment plan. They’re ready to go, then for me, I would let Brandy take it and close it and do her job. You move on and you go do something else where you can be productive, right? But if you…but like you said, “Hey, you got history. You’re worried about it from this or that perspective,” then I don’t have a problem with you triaging and taking the lead either. Okay? But in a…but without that history, why not? If you do…you do a great job, you did everything you’re supposed to do, you do it really quickly, very efficiently, you look like you have a lot of certainty, the patient buys it, boom, let Brandy close it. You know? Let her do her job. And the one other thing, guys, for everybody to remember if you are dealing with a patient that can be a little difficult or a patient that has a tendency to change their mind a lot or say things kind of like, “What was that? You just give me pause for cause,” then, or cause for pause, there…those are the highest risk to be a huge problem for you after you’ve done the treatment if everything isn’t anchored to the outcome. Right?

Because those are the kind of patients that want you guys to bend over backward, give them every concession in the world, adhere to their price points, and make it affordable based on their parameters. But six months later, they’ll come at you and say, “Oh, I don’t like this midline. Oh, I don’t like this and I don’t like that,” and that’s exactly what they bought. But we were never selling the outcome. We were only accommodating them financially and the outcome really wasn’t spoken about. There was way too much left open to interpretation. That’s when you’re at the highest risk for problems post-close. Does that make sense?

Dr. Ferber: A bigger down payment and a smaller monthly payment, or a smaller down payment the bigger monthly payment?

Patient: Just have down at cash, then can I make a plan? How is that if I do it monthly?

Dr. Ferber: Can I ask you how your credit is?

Patient: Great.

Dr. Ferber: You got to pay with your own money because you’re not going to pay us. You have to pay the finance company.

Bart: Okay now, listen. The second she says she has half down, he said thirty grand. She can do half down. That’s 15,000. Well, you got somebody serious in front of you. She says she can do half down in cash. Half down in cash. She wants…she wants a monthly payment plan. Now, this is again, this is the point in time where the clinical tonality can kind of bite you here. We have to change gears. I’m still not convinced that she even knows what she’s buying right now. I’m just not convinced of that.

I think it happened really fast. There was no recap. I don’t know if she knows the difference between the top and bottom yet. I’m just not convinced that she’s even sure. I think she just has so much urgency. She’s ready to go and she already had a number in her head that was pre-planned that she could put down in cash around 15,000. So I’m a little bit like worried at this point because I’m not sure the patient even understands before we start getting into financing logistics, but here you need to really start listening.

Dr. Ferber: Because we’re not a bank. We’re just dental office.

Patient: Uh, Okay. We’ll, could the finance company? Okay, I have a good credit.

Dr. Ferber: So you could pay it off anywhere from 24 months, no interest up to 10 years with interest. We’ll work it out for you to get a good monthly payment.

Patient: How much is that?

Dr. Ferber: We have to apply then we’ll know.

Patient: So, if it’s 30,000 and I can do three years, how much is that?

Dr. Ferber: We have to apply then we’ll know.

Brandy: You and I can apply now and just get an idea, so that you have an idea of what the monthly payment will be. Dr. Ferber: It will only take 10 minutes.

Brandy: Because everybody is different, right?

Dr. Ferber: It depends on your credit. Everyone’s monthly payment is different.

Patient: So if I pay you 15,000 now, there will be 15,000.

Dr. Ferber: Right, they’ll finance 15,000. And you’ll be looking good within a couple of weeks. You’ll feel a lot better.

Bart: So guys, can you see how the same cadence and tone apply to the conversation about money and it can feel…like it feels like certainty when you’re…when you’re speaking clinically, but about money, it feels dismissive. You got…it’s the same tone. It’s the same pace. He didn’t change anything. It’s all the same, but it’s applied to a different topic now, and you can see her anxiety go up. You can feel almost the energy of she’s trying to understand everything. The way that he explains it, it’s like, “Oh, it’s like this. You do that. You do that,” da, da, da. Very quick. Very quick. It’s like…it can be taken as though like, “Hey, don’t rush me. I’m thinking, damn it.” You know what I’m saying? Okay.

Dr. Ferber: You can take pictures smiling without a mask. You don’t have to wear a mask anymore.

Patient: I would wear a mask anyway.

Dr. Ferber: So you have to do something for yourself.

Bart: See, this lady already has urgency. Honestly, guys, at this point, I don’t think she’s clear in terms of what she’s buying. I think she still has questions from what he just explained three minutes ago, and now we’re already on to the money. I think it’s so much. I just don’t think she’s clear on what she’s buying yet. We kind of assumed it was, and now we’re talking about money, financing options, credit. All this stuff happened within the last four minutes. It’s a lot to go through that fast.

Patient: And then if I did, I want my own [inaudible].

Bart: Look at her. Look at her.

Dr. Ferber: Of course, you do. Lower denture is terrible. People who [inaudible] an upper denture, they’re lower denture was all over the place. You won’t be able to eat. basis.

Patient: [inaudible]

Dr. Ferber: Yeah, it’s 23 for the bottom and 7 for the top. Take out some teeth, screw everything out, and make a healing denture for you. We make a final denture for you. You’re going to look good. You’ve been putting this off for years. You first came in here in 2015.

Patient: I know.

Bart: So listen, how he’s pushing. Hey, this stuff…this stuff isn’t bad. Right? It’s just the tonalities being used and listen, no matter what, there’s a time and a place for all of this. You guys know there’s a time and a place for it. But if the patient isn’t clear in terms of what it is that you’re going to do and they’re not excited and haven’t displayed any type of enthusiasm, then it makes it really risky for you to push. You have to know that there’s no questions, right? There’s no questions on the clinical. They want it. They know that this is what it takes to get the outcome. They’re excited about the outcome. They have all of the urgency. You know, I gained agreement. I put a bow on it. That’s done. Then we run the close, bundle close, start high, drop a discount, show them that they’re getting more than what it is that they’re paying for, then get to the dollar amount. Guys, if you throw it out in a five-minute period, she’s like, “Holy crap.” I mean she’s visibly confused and if not confused, she’s really working hard here mentally. Does that make sense? Working really hard mentally.

Patient: Okay, then again, but I need it that bad.

Dr. Ferber: You need it.

Patient: I know. I know.

Dr. Ferber: Three teeth left on top and nothing on the bottom.

Patient: It’s almost 800.

Dr. Ferber: Okay, what’s affordable for you on a monthly basis?

Bart: Guys, the issue is we’re not running a close. You know what I mean? So if you run the close, work up the treatment plan, present the bundle, show the price, go through it, take the price from whatever it was, 39 down to 30. Show them again the $9,000 discount. I know you said that you wanted to put about half down, so that’s 15,000. Okay, so we’ll do 15,000 down, then, “Let me ask you, what’s easy for you in terms of paying the rest of the 15. What do you have in mind there?” Nothing more. Just ask, “What do you have in mind?” And you have to slow down a little bit. You change up your delivery here because what you want is to…you don’t want to raise anxiety because the money comes with a tremendous amount of anxiety for people.
The money, for most people that get all on four, the money is vastly greater in terms of anxiety than the treatment itself or the surgery. They’re way more worried about spending 30 or 40 or $50,000 or signing their name for 50 grand or 40 grand than they are even the surgery, which is scary enough for most, given that most people are scared of filling, right? But these people are in a situation where it’s so bad that they’re not scared of it because it’s inevitable. They have to do it. So the money’s what carries along most of the anxiety here. So we want to be as disarming as we possibly can, and make sure they know that they’re getting a good deal, and give them an opportunity to tell us how they want to pay. She’s giving me half of it, 15 grand down, so I know this lady is serious. And you guys know, if they say 15, what does that mean? That means 20 all day long, probably 30, in cash. Twenty all day long, probably 30. Nobody is going to give you their top number right out of the gate in cash. There’s no way. It’s never going to happen. So I think, right off the bat, she says 15.

I think this lady can pay for it in cash. But again, you do it in the right sequence because then it will build rapport and it shows the patient you’re already given a discount. You’re giving them more than what they’re paying for. And as long as you’ve gained agreement on the treatment plan, and they don’t have any questions there, they’re excited about it, all of this is going to flow. I just think it’s a lot to throw at somebody in a five-minute span. “The whole treatment plan and boom, 30k. Do it. Financing. Okay. How much you’re putting for down?” “15,000.” “Okay, what’s affordable per month?” It’s so fast for somebody like her to just process everything especially because I believe she still has questions on the treatment plan itself at this point.

Patient: [inaudible]

Dr. Ferber: You apply and then [inaudible]

Brandy: Well, so do you feel that you could afford a monthly payment of $200 or $300 a month?

Patient: Uhm, no.

Dr. Ferber: What could you afford on a monthly basis?

Patient: That’s what I got to think about right now. I’ll be the one to pay that money and I’ve been on a pension.

Bart: And remember, there are ways of softening this up, right? So when she says something like that and she’s kind of articulating, what she’s doing is thinking outside. She’s thinking out loud right now. So say, “Yeah. I understand exactly what you’re saying, and the only reason why I ask is because what we try to do is just make it as convenient as we possibly can. We try to be as flexible and as creative as we possibly can in terms of ways to allow you to pay for it. The most important thing is what? That we get off on the right foot, that you start moving in the right direction, and you get the treatment, you know, that you need to help you live a better life. That’s the most important thing. I just try to maintain as flexible as I can to make this as convenient as possible. So I don’t mean to throw a bunch of questions at you yet, you know, ask a bunch of questions rapid fire. I just want you to know, I’ll work with you on the financing with however I need to, to get it done for you. So you tell me what would work and we’ll just use that as a starting point. Does that sound fair?” And there’s a way of saying it with softening it up so that you can build some trust there. But like it’s the same cadence as delivering the treatment plan in that high level of certainty with money is going to sound abrupt or dismissive or a little pushy even when it’s not. I know what he’s trying to do. I get it, but there’s a way of softening that up.

Dr. Ferber: Well, the only other thing we can do for you, because I said to you that we can do the initial set of teeth and then we make a final set of teeth for you if you want later. Okay.

Patient: I need them now.

Dr. Ferber: You got to listen to me. Generally, we make the initial set of teeth, which is this material, right? Okay?

Bart: But we haven’t gotten a financial objection yet. There hasn’t been a financial objection. Do you guys notice that? She never once said it was too expensive. She said, “I thought… Oh, it’s 30. I thought it was going to be in the 20s,” but she didn’t give a financial objection. She said I could pay 15,000 down and she doesn’t have any option. We just haven’t figured out how she wants to pay for the next 15 yet. We haven’t determined she can’t pay the next 15. That hasn’t been decided yet.

Dr. Ferber: We make a second set of teeth, like four to six months later, which is a stronger material. The second set of teeth has a lifetime warranty. Okay. If we only make the second first set of teeth, it’s going to bring your costs down from 30,000 down to 21,000. This is a different material. This only has a one-year warranty.

Patient: Is it steel implant?

Dr. Ferber: Yes, steel implants, just different material of the teeth. They have a one-year warranty. If it breaks after one year, then we can replace it for you for $1,000. So that’ll take you down to 21,000. You could pay 15,000 out of pocket and then you’re only financing 6,000.

Patient: No, I got it.

Dr. Ferber: You have the full 21,000?

Patient: Yeah.

Dr. Ferber: Okay, so let’s do it that way.

Patient: [inaudible]

Dr. Ferber: I’m not trying to kill anybody. What did I tell you on the phone last night?

Bart: Listen, all right, so we’re talking about somebody…we’re talking to somebody that has the money. Okay? So we never got a financial objection. So what’s happening is…so Dr. Ferber is just speaking so much more…so much quicker than she is. He’s two steps ahead. She hasn’t caught up yet. Right? So she said 15,000 down. “Fine, 15,000. That’s what we’re doing for the treatment plan. How would you like to pay for next 15?” And then as she’s thinking you gotta let her think, and if we believe she’s overthinking it, we have to help her simplify it and say, “Listen, there’s no wrong answer here. The only reason why I even ask the question is because we try to be as flexible and accommodating as we possibly can to make this super easy for you. That’s all. That’s all that is. So if you want to pay for it over a long period of time, then I can collect a little bit of information for you and I can see what you qualify, right? But if you said, ‘Hey, I want to pay for it over a short amount of time,’ if you want to pay, you know, the other 15 over 3 or 4 months, then I could do that too. It just really depends on what’s best for you and you know, what you would prefer.” That’s it and then you got to let her go. Let her go. Let her go, right? You guys are going to see where this goes.

Dr. Ferber: That I’ll make it affordable for you.

Patient: But that’s still 200. Keep them.

Dr. Ferber: Of course.

Patient: I have 15,000.

Dr. Ferber: You can do that too. I’m not trying to kill anybody. I told you that. All right, let’s work out the details for 21,000 top and bottom. We’ll take good care of you. We got some records out there today and then we’ll get you scheduled.

Bart: I don’t know why we went away from the 30. I’m not sure why we went away from the 30. If she said she had 21,000 in cash, I believe they said, 23 for the tops or 23 for the bottom, 7 for the top. She has 21 cash, right? Listen, anytime you’re dealing with a patient like this that’s taking this long and they’re not really applying for financing, there’s something usually that’s keeping them that’s preventing them from applying for financing, something. Okay? She says she has 21,000 cash. She said she has a credit card, so I’m thinking I got this lady. She can at least do probably $24,000, $25,000.

So I don’t know why we went away from it, especially if the doctor thinks this patient is a little peculiar and made it perhaps a little difficult to work with on certain things. I would hate to do a PMMA. You know what I mean? Because there’s too many variables in a PMMA. It’s going to change too much. It has too much of a propensity to stain or chip or crack and those are all major issues for somebody that could be a little difficult, right? Because they’re not going to care, 21 or 28 or 21 and 30, it’s a lot of money for them either way. So before I would go away from the final, I would be sure there’s no way in hell that we could do it, like I couldn’t get the deal done. And here’s the other thing. If you’re dealing with a situation, guys, where financing is not on the table. We’re not going to do financing or they don’t have good credit or they just don’t want to do financing and it’s a cash deal, and let’s say that you’re at 30,000 and you have somebody that says they can come up with 21. Okay? You’re charging 23 for the bottom. You charge 7 for the upper. The upper is a denture.

When you tell someone you’re going to charge $7,000 for a denture on the upper, some red flags might go up because that price is pretty steep for just the denture, right? $7,000. My point is you have a little room there. So for me, if I had someone and said, “I can do 21,” if I could get 22 or 23 to pay for the lower, why not finance the upper denture in-house? What are you risking? What are you risking? There’s no implants. There’s no components. You’re in there already. You have to put in opposing teeth no matter what. So why not just collect the money for the bottom and come up with terms with the patient and say, “How about this? We’ll finance the other 7 or 6 or whatever ends up being. I’ll finance it in-house for you.

That way, you don’t have to pay interest. We’ll just do a debit card, whatever debit card you want to use. We’ll do an automated charge on the 1st or the 15th of every month, whichever one you want, and that will be an automated charge for the next 12 months.” What’s wrong with that? What’s wrong with that? Where’s your risk? All your cost and all your exposure is in the implant side, what she’s paying upfront in full, but I would be real careful on a patient that’s particular putting him in a PMMA. I would be very dubious of that. I would think about that a long and hard before I did it, and if I was going to do it, I would reset the expectation before I even presented it as an option because you guys don’t need problems. You don’t need these PMMAs coming back in droves for adjustments and they need to see the lab tech. It throws a real wrench in your productivity to do that. So you have to make sure before you do it that that was the only way to get the patient help. Not only that, you also have to make sure like, “Why aren’t we doing an all on four on the upper?” You know? Where did that come from? Where did the denture come from?

If I had enough time to play the whole thing, I would show you, but this lady hates the denture idea. She looks at it. She’s like, “You mean that’s going to go on the roof of my mouth? Oh God. I don’t like that. What? Do I have to use glue? Oh God. I don’t like that.” All the things about the denture, the lady hated. I think if I remember correctly, I think that she would just clinically. Brandy, that’s right. Clinically, right? She didn’t have enough bone for the implants on the upper. I’m pretty sure. Okay, so clinically, she didn’t have enough implants on the upper, but for me, does that mean she’s not a zygoid case, so not a pterygoid case? Here’s the thing. If you’re going to treatment plan to the patient, you have to treatment plan to the patient whether you offer it or not.

So if the outcome the patient wants, if the only way to get the outcome is fixed and that’s what the patient wants, if you can’t deliver zygomatics, then you send the patient for a consultation about zygomatic implants. Does that make sense? Because if you don’t, if they’re expecting this and you deliver this no matter what the price, you got a problem. You got a problem and you can’t treatment plan up to your level of services. You have to treatment plan. You know what I mean? If that means working with another doctor on a pterygoid case as zygoid case, if that means charging, you know, splitting a fee or something like that, it doesn’t matter. Right? What matters is that this is the expectation. “This is the quality of life the patient wants and this is the only way I know how to get there because I can’t do regular implants. The only way to get what you want would be to look at zygomatic implants or pterygoid case or whatever. I don’t do that here. I have a great doctor that does it. Here’s what I would recommend we can do,” boom boom boom. And then you button it up. You button it up and you present it as one thing. So those are just some of the questions that I have here, but I think the rule of thumb, okay? If you don’t have the outcome, it’s subjective and you’re going to be putting yourself in a position where you’re pushing treatment and that’s like any other salesperson that’s pushy, where people are like, “Oh jeez, that’s a car salesman there.”

You know why the car salesman is pushy? Because the car salesman has one particular car they’re just trying to get you to buy the car. The pushy car salesman is not interested in what you’re looking for in a car. They’re more interested in the car they have to sell and making it sound awesome to you and pushing it and they’re forcing it. Well, that happens with dentists all the time, but it’s not a car. It’s a treat. It’s an all-on-four, right? We’re pushing a certain type of an all-on-four. So there’s no difference, a dentist, a car salesman, a mechanic, retail. It’s all the same thing being pushy is when you’re perceiving…when you are being perceived as caring and putting more of a focus on the thing that you sell rather than the outcome that the customer wants. That’s what that’s what it is. It happens constantly in dentistry. We’re just unaware of it. So that’s what I would say, guys, focus on the outcome. Treatment plan to it. If you see their wheels turning, if you don’t feel like they’re getting it, you gotta slow down, connect with them, and ask them some questions to get them talking. Get them talking. Get them opening up.

As soon as they say something money-wise and they allude to the fact that it is going to be a cash deal, if they give you a number over $10,000, in your head, “This deal is getting done. We’re getting this deal done today.” Don’t be afraid of in-house financing either. You guys have to get… I’m seeing way too…it’s starting to bother me honestly because it doesn’t make any business sense to lose some of these deals over 2, 3, or 4,000 dollars, in which you have very little risk. That’s bananas. So somebody can come up with 20 grand or 25 grand. The treatment plan is 35, and they’re going to give me 25 cash and I’m not going to help him out on the 10, why? All my expenses are covered. Okay, so you start with shorter terms. We’ll pay the next 10,000 over the next six months. They’re not even going to get their final for three months. Right?

So you’re going to be 50% of the way there to fully pay back before they ever get their final. So remember, in the economic environment that we’re in with interest rates really high and approval rates going down, you guys have to be creative here and you’re going to have to use more business sense to get these deals done and understand how much it costs you to get one of these deals in front of you. You can’t lose them like that, you know. So don’t worry about in-house finance. It’s not a big deal. It’s an automated credit card charge or it’s an automated debit card charge on the 1st or the 15th, whether it’s 6 months or 12 months, it doesn’t matter. If they do only a PMMA, then do it for 12 months or 18 months because eventually, they’re going to have an issue with it.

They’re going to come back and if they’re delinquent, well, you don’t do anything until they come current. So to me, it’s like insurance. If it’s a final, you do shorter terms. You’re obviously getting the majority of the money upfront. But if it’s I’m not going to lose 25,000 deal over 5,000 bucks. I’ll take the risk on $5,000 over six months and do $1,000 a month for six months because they’re going to get their final in three months. So now I’ve got 23,000 out of the 25. At the time the final was delivered, I’ll risk the other two, plus most doctors aren’t going to do that. So all these people with poor credit, but they have cash, you guys can get those deals and get them close quickly, but you have to keep these things in mind and really work with the patient here and really think, “Okay, 10,000 bucks or up. We have to be super aggressive and we’re going to have to take on some risk, but we’re going to do more volume. We’re going to increase sales, but we’re going to take a little bit more risk.” I’d rather take on the risk to collect than the certainty of losing everything. I don’t know about you. If they walk out because I couldn’t get into finance for 25, and they don’t have a plan for the next 5, but they have 20, I can close on 20 and risk not getting the 5, or I can be certain that I get neither the 20 or the 5.

You guys have any questions on that? And you guys have to be comfortable making these deals, you know. Make the deal and talk to the doctor about it and stuff. But the doctors aren’t going to have a problem when you explain it to him. Now. Hey, you do a deal where you in-house financing with no money down, you’re going to have a problem. I would never do that. With an all-on-four, you’re looking $10,000 down minimum, but ideally, you’re getting over half. You’re getting 50% or better, and then it’s really hard to lose the whole case, 50% or better, you take the risk. I’d rather have the uncertainty of collecting and the certainty of losing the whole thing. All right. Do we have any questions? I’m way over on time.

Dr. Ferber: Bart, thank you very much. This is very insightful. You know.

Bart: Yeah. Well, you guys are doing a great job. You’re doing a great job.

Dr. Ferber: [inaudible]. I feel like a fool but I think moving forward, this will be very helpful.

Bart: Well, yeah, and hey man, let Brandy do…let Brandy get in there because like I said, the place where you’re going to shine, you can get in there. You can do two, three times as many consultations. So we optimize the marketing, get you guys more leads, get more consultations. You up it a little bit. Everybody should be thinking about in-house financing to gain an advantage on your competitors. With interest rates as high as they are, and lending getting tighter and tighter and tighter. If you’re creative, you can pick up deals all day long just because you’re flexible, and you will entertain in-house financing because almost nobody is. I’ve got clients that lose a 30,000 dollar arch because of 5,000 bucks. Literally, the patient has 25 grand. They don’t close it because we couldn’t get the 5 done. It’s insanity.

Dr. Ferber: Thank you, sir.

Bart: All right, guys. You guys, go close somebody. If you need something, give us a call. Okay?

Dr. Ferber: All right.

Bart: All right. Bye-bye.

Tamara Martinez: Thank you.

Bart: Alright. See you, guys.

Amy Bramiage: Thank you. Have a good day.

Bart: Okay, you too.

Nichol Mangiafico: Bye-bye.

Bart: All right. Goodbye.

Man 1: It’s not that I don’t want training.


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