The Closing Institute - Full Arch Sales Critique

June, 2023

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Female Participant 1: When he got admitted, if ever I did it. Um, he also says he can do 3…

[long silence]

Female Participant 1: Cleaning, yes. And we don’t have a hygienist here either, but we had some really great ones here in town that I could still- even Wilson, I know, really.

Female Participant 2: Is that [inaudible] okay?

Female Participant 3: Yes, ma’am.

Female Participant 4: Oh, good. Okay. Wait, now that I have. Oh, perfect.

Women 3: Yup. Um.

[inaudible conversation]

Female Participant 2: Hello?

Female Participant 4: Okay. Yup. Um, and then I asked Lisa, um, if she would do… sorry, I have to leave because I’m taking half-day. If she would go here and then once the chat start… Oh, right there. I get impatient. Um, it’s greyed out because there’s no chat spa-, save chat at the end, and that’s how I get my attendance.

Female Participant 2: Okay. Okay, cool.

Female Participant 4: That’s all I do.

Female Participant 2: Okay.

Female Participant 4: Just to try to do it [inaudible]

Female Participant 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Female Participant 4: Okie dokie.

[long silence]

Female Participant 4: Yeah, in the [inaudible]

[long silence]

[muffled voices]

Bart: You guys are going to be meeting people as they get in or I am?

Female Participant 4: Mm-hmm. Alright. [inaudible] Here we go.

[man clears throat in background]

Female Participant 3: There he is. There’s the big man.

Bart: There he is. Wow. [inaudible]


Bart: We got to deal with this guy today.

Jack Jeremy: Hey. How you doing Bart?

Bart: Hey, what’s up?

Jack: I’m good. How’re you doing?

Female Participant 3: [inaudible]

Jack: Oh, thank you.

[muffled voices]

Bart: Going on guys. How is everybody?

Jack: Good.

Female Participant 1: [inaudible]

Bart: Awesome. Awesome.

Female Participant 4: [laughs]

Bart: I’m just giving everybody a minute to log on here, as usual. We got a good second opinion consult to go through today, so it’ll be good.

Female Participant 1: Okay.

Bart: There was a couple little curve balls in this.

[coughing in the background]

Female Participant 2: Um, you can just mute us or…

Female Participant 3: Yeah, we’re…

[door slamming in background]

Bart: And if all you guys have access to your camera, just turn and try to- try to turn your cameras on, too. I mean, I can talk to a blank screen, but it’s just not as fun for me.

Female Participant 1: Who is me?

Female Participant 4: Mm-hmm.

Female Participant 3: Can you tell her the chapter name malpractice[?] and chat?

Bart: Um, and when you guys log on, just tat- chat your name and the, uh, name of the practice in the chat.

[man humming in background]

Female Participant 1: Well, I just, uh, texting when I was like in my [inaudible] board.


Bart: You guys been closing some arches? Anyone got a-anyone got a good consult to share before we get going? Because I’m just giving everybody maybe another minute or 2 to log on. If anybody has anything good, um, any consults that you want to share, anything weird or entertaining that might have happened, you can tell me. You can tell me anything. Who’s got something?

Female Participant 4: We um, have been having a lot of Blue Cross Blue Shield medical paying for all on fours for our office, so that’s cool.

Bart: That is cool. So, how do you position that in with the bundle though?

Female Participant 3: We don’t.


Female Participant 4: We haven’t been.

Bart: So what do you do? You just give ’em the… you give ’em the price and then find out what they’re going to be in reimbursed, and it’s like an extra discount or what? Are you just-

Female Participant 4: No.

Bart: -don’t give them a price?

Female Participant 4: We don’t give them a price. Um, we try to avoid that as much as possible because we’ve been using medical codes for it. So we really don’t know like what that final price would be until after we send a predetermination, and then, they’re just subjected, or I’m sorry. They just have to pay their individual deductible and their individual out-of-pocket, which sometimes it’s less than $10,000, sometimes it’s less than $3,000.

Bart: Mm-hmm.

Female Participant 4: So we have to wait for them to get approved. They do a TeleMed. Um, yeah.

Bart: Yeah, if it covers the whole thing.

Female Participant 4: Mm-hmm.

Female Participant 3: Yeah.

Bart: Mm-hmm. You just have to… you-you just kind of have to be a little bit careful about collecting more from insurance than you charge. You guys, you guys got to look into that. It’s never any problem until it’s a problem with stuff like that. You know what I mean?

Female Participant 4: Yeah.

Bart: Never… no… there’s no problem until there’s an audit or something like that. And then you just want to make sure you got your uh, you got your ducks in a row and you guys are in compliance and all that because it’s a, it’s a very… medical insurance, they don’t mess around. You know what I’m saying?

Female Participant 4: Yeah.

Bart: They can come back 3 years later. Right? And it’s tough to explain that you charge more for the medical insurance than you do to people paying cash. So you just wanna, you guys wanna make sure you’ve got that, get that together ’cause that-that can be a major, a major issue. It’s not ’til it arises, but once it arises it can be an issue.

Female Participant 4: Yeah.

Bart: But that’s good though, that’s good. I do have a lot of clients that have been getting, um, a lot of them haven’t been getting full reimbursement, but some of them, they get reimbursed just on the grafting part. Some of them get reimbursed for uh, bone reduction. The zygomatics and the pterygoids have been really, really easy to get reimbursed for, but it’s typically not the entire case. It’s like, certain parts of it, but it still totals up to be big dollars. So, you know, that’s, that’s really good, really good.

Female Participant 4: Exciting for our office, for sure.

Bart: Yeah, for sure. Hmph. Okay guys, I’m going to go ahead and get started here. Um, if you guys aren’t muted, just go ahead and mute, and for those of you… Because we’ve got some new people, if this is your first um, your first call critique, we’re just going to be going through a video recording. This video recording, we’ve actually, we’ve got the first, second, and the third 10. And I’m just going to kind of skip through different parts um, because I just want to get to the negotiation aspect of this. Um, but we just kind of go through it, make sure that your audio is up. The audio is actually pretty good on-on this video, much better than some of the other ones, so you shouldn’t have a problem hearing it. Um, but I’ll go through and be stopping along the way and give you guys some context and we’ll kind of walk through it. And if you have any questions, just chat ’em in, um, to the chat as we go. And um, and then I’ll circle back before we’re done and then I’ll get to ’em. Okay? All right. I’m gonna go ahead and start this.


Rick: I hate going.

Tanya: We might be able to get you there. Okay? Um, so tell me what brings you in?

Rick: Well, I live in Wilson. I-I’ve been to Raleigh and I hate going to Raleigh. I-I hate the traffic.

Tanya: Traffic.

Rick: And I’ve been to [inaudible], getting prices and whatever, so I know what, pretty much everything about this.

Tanya: Good. I’m glad you’ve done some research, that’s very helpful.

Rick: Uh, walkin’ that will be a lot better if everything worked out.

Tanya: Yeah, we’re much closer in Wilson. A much nicer drive, for sure.

Rick: Oh yeah…Uh, the main thing I was looking for was the price and… do you do everything right here?

Tanya: Mm-hmm. We do.

Rick: The one place, uh, ClearChoice in Raleigh.

Tanya: Mm-hmm.

Rick: Gave me a real good price but they don’t have um… well, that’ll be um… no, I can’t think what the hygienist after it’s all over with, you have to go somewhere else to do that, the hygienist.

Tanya: For routine maintenance cleaning? Yes. And we don’t have a hygienist here either, but we have some really great ones here in town that I could still, even in Wilson, I know a really great dentist in Wilson that-

Bart: So one thing off the bat guys, so you wanna make sure, it’s gonna help a lot if you have that patient intake form. So you don’t have to start with saying, you know, “What brings you in today?” You already have that information in front of you, you can just kind of lead into it. Um, because as you can see, if you guys start with a big open-ended question like that, what happens is the patient can start, um, pacing and leading the call, right? And we ask a question, he kind of gives a little bit of background, but not in terms of his situation, just in terms of where he is. I think he mentioned price 3 or 4 times already. And uh, and the fact that, you know, he thought, he felt like he got a good price from ClearChoice, but they didn’t do everything in-house. And now we’re kind of answering that. So if-if someone says, “Hey, you know, I didn’t go with them ’cause they don’t do everything in-house” and you are operating the same way, we don’t necessarily have to address that right now. Remember, like when they come into your consultation, okay, they’re on your track. You’re gonna put the patient on your track. You don’t have to answer every question when it’s asked, and you don’t even have to respond to certain things because right now we’re in the first minute and a half of the call. You are in fact-finding mode. That’s what you’re trying to do, you’re trying to assess where this guy is, where he wants to be, what his level of urgency is, right? If he- if he’s already gathered a bunch of pricing information, right? Then why hasn’t he moved forward? What dollar amount is he trying to stay within? Like, these are all the things that you’re trying to, um, that-that you’re trying to figure out right now. You’re not trying to necessarily create value around any one thing in particular. So don’t feel like you have to go right into it. And guys, that can be the hardest thing sometimes. When they bring something up, you want to go ahead and talk about it as they bring it up. But it will lead to the patient bringing something up, you responding, the patient doing it again, you responding, the patient doing it again, you responding, and before you know it, the patient is kind of controlling the entire direction of the dialogue, right? So make sure when they come in, it’s not an open-ended question, it’s, “Hey, I understand you’re here because you know, you’re- you’re coming in for a third opinion, you’ve already looked at price, you’re interested in price, interested in getting some options, and you’re having trouble eating and chewing. Is that right?” like, you need to start off with some type of specific question. And if they go off the line, and they wanna talk about something about maintenance, you can just nod your head and listen, and redirect back to the next anchor. Does that make sense? Because it… we don’t have to answer it right now ’cause we’re just not there yet. We’ll deal with that stuff in the close. Okay?

Tanya: ..the hygienist, it’s very comfortable cleaning around the implants. That’s just a once or twice-a-year maintenance thing

Rick: And then you have to have ’em removed about what’s here, as I was told.

Tanya: Yep.

Rick: Cleaned underneath…

Tanya: We don’t take implants out. The idea is that they don’t ever come out.

Rick: Oh yeah?

Tanya: Yeah. So with the different versions, there’s a couple of different things that have to-

Bart: I don’t think she understood ’em there. He, he’s kind of referring to taking the teeth out and cleaning under the, cleaning under the prosthetic. He’s not referring to the implants. Um, I think she just misunderstood that right there.

Tanya:..clean. But in those cases as-as far as if it was a fixed restoration, which it sounds like that’s what you’re probably looking for, then, you know, occasionally, we teach you at-home hygiene of how to keep it clean and different ways to do that. But typically, we only have to take off the fixed hybrid if there’s a problem.

Rick: Right.

Tanya: So yes, that’s something you wouldn’t have to worry about, but yes, we would do that part here, too. If for some reason it needed to come off.

Rick: I talked to two dentists in Wilson, and they said, and asked them if they would, if I had it done in Raleigh…

Bart: You see how the dialogue can go off in a direction? You know what I mean? It can go off in a direction really quickly. And all of this information, this might be really important to the patient, but it’s not important for us to address it at this point in the call, right? The most important thing for us to do at this point in the call we have to get in rapport and gain this guy’s trust a little bit. I need to figure out what he’s going through, right? That’s it, in the first 10. What are they going through? What’s their problems? How’s it-how is it affecting their life? And then what do they want? And any time the patient wants to talk about treatments, it’s always the same, we always have the same strategy, which is listen, based on, “Melanie[?], sounds like you’re probably gonna be a candidate for a lot of different treatments, at a lot of different price points that may work with you, but every single one of those treatments that may work for you, they all have different outcomes, right? So what I wanna do is figure out what treatment’s gonna get you the outcome that you want, and then we’re gonna make sure that it’s affordable. Okay? So let’s kind of talk a little bit about what you want now”, and you have to direct ’em. Otherwise, people- they don’t, they don’t know. We have to guide them and make sure that we’re pacing and leading the patient all the time because you can-you can go in 3, 4, 5 minutes just being polite, being very professional, answering all of their questions, but some of their questions are irrelevant. Some of their questions are asked out of order. Some of their-their questions, um, a-are not going to help you close the case at all. So, you listen to whatever they say. But then you guys, I want, I want you to really, uh, think about redirecting them to get them back on your track here.

Bart: We’ll fast-forward a little bit.

Tanya: So, you’re thinking you need to lose the rest of your teeth? You’re in the, are you in the upper partial?

Rick: Mm-hmm. I had a-

Tanya: Who made that for you? That’s a nice version.

Rick: Dr. Pooley.

Tanya: Dr. Pooley?

Rick: Or, uh… I forgot their name. This is you…

Bart: Well, remember, anytime that happens, right? Some patient freaking yanks out their teeth in front of you and they’re showing ’em to you. Um, for me, right? I think the question, the question to ask is like, “Okay, what do you not like about it?” You know, I don’t necessarily wanna say, “Hey, that’s really nice-“, even if it is nice-looking, how’s it gonna help me to say it? Because they’re, they’re sitting in front of me ’cause they don’t like something. You know what I mean? So I’m asking them what do they not like about it. They’re gonna give me their pain points, and I’m gonna ask them penetrating questions in terms of how it’s affecting their life negatively, and we’re gonna start getting somewhere really fast.

Rick: It’s all women in Wilson. They just started in a new dental place there.

Tanya: That’s wonderful. That’s a beautiful prosthetic. We make those in-house as well.

Rick: I hate it.

Bart: [laughter]

Tanya: You don’t… what do you dislike about it?

Rick: Before, uh, well, the main thing is I was missing one tooth that I got knocked out when I was 21 years old.

Tanya: Okay.

Rick: And I had… Dr. Bowles put in a tooth.

Tanya: Good old Dr. Bowles.

Rick: It lasted and lasted and lasted, and finally they couldn’t put it back in anymore ’cause it, the stuff was worn out. I had a post on it.

Tanya: Yes, sir.

Rick: And they just couldn’t-couldn’t-couldn’t make it work. So another doctor in Wilson said, “Well, we can put a-a bridge in”. So, he ground down my other 3 teeth and did a bridge, it lasted 3 months.

Tanya: Okay.

Rick: And that was about 7 or $8000. That’s- this is crazy. And so they redid that…

Bart: Guys, does this guy seem like, even though, so this guy brought up, has brought up price 5 times so far. Does he strike you as somebody that, as a, as a person that’s unqualified? Like somebody that doesn’t have any money to do this? Somebody that you’re thinking, “Man, I probably need to get to the point and triage.” He doesn’t strike me as somebody with no money right now, right? No. Um, so I like what Tanya’s doing in terms of not necessarily going right in and trying to get a number from him, because you want to get… if I’m sitting in front of somebody in there, their shopping price, and I feel like, “Hey, they’re qualified, they’re just trying to get a little bit more informed,” then the first thing I need to do is make sure that I get into rapport, so you listen to it. But I’m gonna get into rapport by figuring out current state and desired state and building value along the way. And then before I’m through with the first 10, I’m gonna probe a little bit to figure out what number this person’s looking for. Because it sounds like he’s spoken with a few doctors by now. He said, he’s spoken to the, to two other doctors about maintenance, and he’s spoken with some doc- wi-with ClearChoice, so he’s spoken with a couple. So I wanna figure out w-w-where’s the hesitation, ’cause he said ClearChoice gave him a really, really good price. I wanna know why he didn’t move forward. What’s holding ’em back? I want that information here, but it’s much easier to get the information after you’ve built a little bit of rapport. Now, if he would’ve said, “Hey, I’m looking for pricing information because I don’t have a whole lot of money. I don’t have any credit, and you know, I’m looking for something that, uh, that Medicaid’s gonna cover.” I would get straight to the point.

You know what I mean? I would get straight to the point because the probability of this being a triage is extremely high, but he doesn’t strike me like that. So we- again, we don’t have to answer it directly. I’m gonna fast-forward a little bit.

Rick: Well, they-they told me in Raleigh, w-which… I don’t have any back teeth.

Tanya: You don’t have any chewing teeth, exactly.

Rick: So I’ve never had a problem chewing. But they said you’re putting so much pressure on your front teeth, that’s why you can’t keep, you couldn’t keep a bridge in, and that’s why you couldn’t eat properly.

Tanya: Exactly. So it’s causing this whole gamut of problems.

Rick: Right.

Tanya: Right. And that’s exactly right. What, what you appear is not, you know, problems with chewing, it actually is causing other issues for you.

Rick: Right.

Tanya: So that’s kinda… alright. So is there anything in particular in life that’s going on that’s having you do this now, or is it just the overall frustration of not being able to eat with it in?

Rick: Well, it’s just embarrassing having to pull your teeth out to eat and…

Tanya: Exactly, I imagine so. Do you have anything going on that would dictate the sort of when we would like to get this done for you? Like a birthday, anniversary, vacation, anything, timeframe?

Rick: No, it would’ve already been done, but my doctor, my regular doctor, uh, they called her and she said, “No way, A1C was 9.4 in January”.

Tanya: Okay. So have you been working on getting that down? ’cause that’s a good point.

Rick: Yeah, I got it way down. But-

Tanya: But what is it now?

Rick: I’m gonna have it. Uh, she couldn’t check it again before May the 18th.

Tanya: Okay, so that’ll work. Great. So I’ll write a letter for your doctor, if you’ll take it when you go. And that way we can try to get clearance from that point, standpoint. So whenever you’re ready to start, we’re not held up waiting on that.

Rick: It’s a…

Bart: Hey, I want, I want you guys to all hear this, because he said, “Hey, this would’ve already been done.” He’s already got urgency. He said, “I would’ve already got this done if my medical doctor didn’t say that I couldn’t.” So if you guys have a situation where you close somebody, and they pay for the treatment, and then something happens in their life to cause a delay, it is like, so critical that you guys get the records done and get the smile design done. That’s not the surgery, you know what I mean? But you have to start the process to make a refund impossible. Does that make sense? So-so that they don’t feel, ’cause like, if-if he was already committed somewhere and that’s the only thing holding him up, why is he still looking? Why is he still having consultations at this point? Because in his mind, yeah, he committed, but he’s still not committed. So, they start thinking as time passes and they get away from you after the close, every day they’re away from you it’s bad. So you, i-if something happens to delay it, there-there’s nothing medically that’s going to delay the records, there’s nothing medically that’s going to delay the smile design, there’s nothing medically that’s gonna delay any of that. You have to start it and get it as far as you can as quickly as you can to avoid situations like this.

Rick: It should be under seven.

Bart: I’m gonna switch over to the next… I’m gonna switch over here… to the next video.

Female Participant 1: You need a unshare probably?

Bart: No, here it’s.

Female Participant 1: Yep.

Bart: Okay… so here’s the, this is the second 10 and the third 10 together, but I-I don’t wanna run out of time for the negotiation part here.

Rick: Hey, how are you?

Jack: Good, Jack Jeremy.

Rick: Rick-

Bart: There’s a couple of things very, very unique about this. The guy said he’s shopping price, but then he tells us at the same time, that he would’ve already done it, that he already committed somewhere. So there’s a couple different, uh, different dynamics here, right? But… Sometimes you-you can’t overthink it when, when it comes to sales. If you want to know the answer to something, you have to remember like, “Hey, if he, if he, if he… said it already would’ve been done, but it was because A1C was too high,” you know, maybe you ask him, say, “Okay, did you already commit? You would’ve already done it at ClearChoice, you’re saying? Did you already commit to ClearChoice? Have you paid?” Right? You wanna, you wanna dig a little bit because we’re in June and he’s talking about back in January. So you just wanna be… in the first 10, you have to get clear on what the current state is, not just in their health, but what is the current state, like, where are we here? So that you know how to position and frame everything a-appropriately.

Rick: Whitley.

Jack: Nice to meet ‘ya.

Tanya: Mr. Whitley comes to us from Wilson right down the road.

Jack: Right, right.

Tanya: Um, he sort of, kind of long story short, had some issues with a couple of bridges on the upper anterior, um, over the last several years that sort of led him into the bridges failing, so he went into a partial. He recently has had a female dentist in Wilson make him a printed upper partial. So it’s a beautiful prosthetic but it won’t stay in. And so his major concern right this second is it falls down when he’s trying to eat. It’s embarrassing. So he, ultimately, just takes it out. Um, that is where we are as far as urgency that he really wants to have something done yesterday, as he told me. He did visit ClearChoice in Raleigh. He kind of does not like the Raleigh traffic, the-the hustle of getting up and back and forth from there for several visits. So, he’s checked around and us being so much closer to him. Um, we kind of reviewed the hygiene. I think it was a concern of his that they didn’t have a hygienist to take care of it, which I let him know we don’t in-office, but you have lots of colleagues, a particular one in Wilson that I’m happy to reach out and see what we can do about getting him set with a dental home close to his home so he doesn’t have to travel so much. Um, ClearChoice, I guess. Was it ClearChoice that was gonna be doing your surgery or was there somewhere else?

Rick: ClearChoice.

Tanya: Okay. So he had some issues with his A1C being up. They have worked very hard. He has worked very hard to get it down, so we think we’re at a good level now, and the sooner the better. He wants to get back to eating without embarrassment, but looks are extremely important to him. He’s not really fond of the actual appearance of the teeth of this particular partial, so I let him know that the team here is very concerned with appearances and that you would take all the measures you need to make sure it’s exactly what he would like to see. So that’s kind of where we are right now.

Jack: Okay. So, she’s clearly pretty thorough in-in her investigation, but is there anything that she just conveyed to me that-that she missed that you want me to know in particular?

Tanya: Actually, I did miss, he wants fixed. He does not want something that comes in and out.

Jack: Okay.

Tanya: Because of his troubles with this particular one moving around on him.

Jack: Does that pretty much sum it up? Anything else you want me to know before I get into the nuts and bolts of it?

Rick: Uh, just the price, if we get it low as we can.

Jack: And that-that she-she’s pretty good at finagling that when I’m not looking, but our main thing is to get you to where you want to go.

Rick: Right.

Jack: That’s the biggest thing and the money, yes, it’s a huge concern. But those talks can be had, the biggest thing is getting you to that final prosthetic that you’re comfortable in, that you’re confident in, and that’s what matters to us. So the first thing that I do want to ask is: have you landed on a spot where you’re sure you want to get out the rest of your natural teeth and you want to move into an implant prosthetic?

Rick: Oh, yeah. I… I made up my mind in January.

Jack: Okay, that’s all. I-I just, as you know, ethically, I had to make that, you know, if you weren’t sure about whether or not you wanted to take out the rest of your natural teeth, I just needed to know, so I can pivot the conversation.

Rick: Right.

Jack: If you landed on that, there’s no doubt in my mind, you’ve already know this. She knows it. There may be a lot of discussion is that fixed hybrid or some sort of fixed implant prosthetic is gonna be your best bet to get you to that natural form and function, least bulky, best-performing restoration. Um, and now we just gotta figure out whatever is, what’s it gonna take to get you there. Um, other than that, on the clinical side, the great news is, I think you already knew this, probably from your other consults, you have the bone.

That’s the biggest thing on that end of it. Sounds like you’ve gotten your health, those things in order to move forward, which is a big part of it. Those are the 2, sort of, limiting factors when it comes to this type of treatment is: do we have the bone? And is the, is there any contraindications because of health or something else? So, right now we’re having go, go, go, green light, green light on those things. Sounds like y’all just need to finish the discussions on…

Tanya: Absolutely.

Jack: On the cost, which she’s good at making this more achievable for more.

Rick: One other thing, uh, ClearChoice. Well, they were good. They helped me out a lot. I went to, uh, a place in Vermont. Can’t remember the name of it, but the doctor there said that, well, ClearChoice gave me an excellent price. I can’t touch it. They were $10,000 more than the other one. He said, “I can’t touch the price, but we do a better job.” He said they’re, they’re like a corporation and they do with 4 implants at within the bottom and 4 in the top. He said, “I-I always do at least 5”.

Jack: Yeah, I mean you can look in my plan, I’ve got 6 and 6 there.

Rick: Okay.

Jack: I’m never gonna undercut. If someone has the bone with this type of procedure, I’m gonna put the number of implants I need to put.

Rick: Right.

Jack: The more, because again for longevity’s sake, I want as many implants in the right position as possible.

Bart: Right, so let’s think about where we’re going with this. So, the guy said, the patient said right off the bat, “Doctor, hey, you know, if we can just get that price as low as, as low as we possibly can”. So, from a doctor’s perspective and from like, the overall goal of the second 10, I want you guys to remember this, especially with price shoppers, right? We don’t want to present something that’s gonna blow the guy out of the water, given the fact that now we know that this is his third stop. He went to one doctor, and he said they can’t touch. It-it sounds like ClearChoice was the first stop. He went and got a second opinion, they said “That the price is $10,000 less. We can’t touch that price, but we do a better job.” So he’s in, he’s, this is at minimum, his third stop right now in this process. So, basically, the gist of it is, “Here’s what we see from a clinical standpoint. I think you’re gonna be a candidate for a number of different types of All-on-4s. What type you go with, ultimately it’s gonna depend on 2 factors: number 1, what kind of outcome you want? And number 2, what type of, uh, which treatment you can afford, what type of price point do you want to be at? So let’s talk about both things, right? What are the, what’s the most important thing to you? How important are function, aesthetics, maintenance, and longevity?” And you get them to tell you from a scale of 1 to 10, right? Say, “Look. Based on that, here’s what I would recommend.” You know, and say, “Listen, before we start going into anything in particular, it sounds to me like you have a number within your head, right? A lot of places when it comes to All-on-4, they just give you 1 option. We’ve got more than 1 option because we do All-on-4 with different types of materials. So we have All-on-4 at different prices, all of which are gonna be significantly better than what you’re in right now. But let’s have an open and honest conversation about what you’re expecting to spend, what you’re looking to spend, and what’s it gonna take to get you going, right? So, you didn’t move forward at ClearChoice and they were $10,000 less. So what price point were they at?” “They were at x amount.”. Okay, whatever. Like you guys, go ahead and have that conversation now because depending on where they’re at, and this guy gives me the impression that he’s gonna answer those questions. He gives me the-the impression that he’s pretty direct. He’s kind of no-nonsense. He doesn’t seem to be hiding a whole lot from us here. So, ask ’em, because I wanna make sure, like if I’m the doctor, I wanna make sure this thing is a done deal, right? And I wanna make sure that Tanya’s got 1 treatment plan to go back and present. And I know that it’s gonna be in the ballpark that this particular patient is-is expecting, and the-the patient kind of wants to talk about it right now. So there’s no problem in asking ’em, “Hey, what kind of price did they give you? Why didn’t you move forward with it? You know, if you felt comfortable, why didn’t you move forward with that? Okay, well, if that’s too much, what are you looking to spend? It sounds like you have a number within your head. I can get creative with this, right? But there’s what you need, what you want, and what you can afford. I-I’ve gotta make this work for you on all fronts. So where do you want to be here? Gimme a ballpark and let me build the treatment around whatever’s gonna make you happy.” And you’re just trying to pull a number from the patient so that… so you make sure that this thing gets done.

Jack: Now, some people, they only have the bone for 4 and we gotta get creative. But from what I see in your case, I will put as many implants as I need. So, it should never get to a point where you and I are discussing how many implants…

Rick: Right.

Jack: …I am putting in, let’s put it that way. I will never speak to any other dentist’s ability or who will do better. That’s not my position. They probably all do a great job. All I can do is speak to what I can do, how great I can do it, but mainly how great my team is. With this type of thing, what you really need is not only a great provider, but you need a great team that helps walk you through this comfortably, ’cause it’s a big investment. It’s a big investment. Obviously, financially, it’s a big time investment, but it’s, and I don’t care how tough a-a burly man you are, it’s an emotional investment when you’re going into this type of thing and you need people to walk you through it, and she’s your advocate, but the rest of the team here is your advocate. So when it gets to that thing, you don’t have to worry about clinically. I’m going to, everyone here will reassure you, I’m gonna do what is clinically the proper thing to the best of my ability. That’s what I value.

Rick: Okay. And everything’s done in one day?

Jack: That’s the, yeah, we attempt to do everything in one day. I never guarantee. Again, that would be silly for me to guarantee something, but I would prefer to try to get it all done in one day, if at all possible.

Tanya: It’s the goal, anyway. [laughs]

Rick: That’s right.

Jack: So again, I think you’ve been through numerous of these consultations. I think you’re…

Bart: But what is the recommendation, right? Where’s the primary recommenda-? What are we telling them to do? And based on what? Right? So still to this point, I feel like we’ve done a good job of getting the current state. He’s told us, he’s kind of told us what his frustrations are. It’s embarrassing to smile, and the prosthetic comes in and out. It’s a little bit more difficult to eat things and stuff, like he’s already said all that, but where is the-where is the context on what he wants? Right? Because that always has to anchor our primary recommendation. And then, like we don’t wanna talk about it in concepts. We don’t want to talk about this hypothetical. We wanna talk in specifics here. This is the second 10. This is where the doctor tells you how that doctor’s gonna bring you from here to here. Like that-that has to happen right now. And the only caveat to this is that you know, it’s the, it’s the, it’s his third stop and you know, he wants to be in a specific place. So, you don’t have to worry about the other doctor, it was $10,000 higher. He already eliminated them. So the only one you have to beat is ClearChoice. So, I need to know what it is that he wants, gauge a treatment plan on that, and then make sure that we, that-that our treatment plan is clearly, uh, better than ClearChoice in-in more than one way. But, you get, you have to be very specific to say, “Okay, listen, based on where you are and where you wanna be, this is how I would approach a case. This is what I would do.” Right? “We’re gonna do boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I would recommend this material. This is Zirconia. This is why I would recommend this material.” Right? Boom, boom, whatever it is. But you gotta get specific and make sure they’re crystal clear on what it is that we’re recommending so that we can get to a price. Otherwi- Excuse me. Otherwise, Tanya is gonna have to do all of that in the third 10, and that’s typically much, much better for the doctor to do that part.

Jack: Pretty educated, well educated on the process, which is a great thing that makes these conversations easier. And it sounds like we all agree. Something needs to be done. You agree something needs to be done and the sooner the better. Correct?

Rick: Right.

Tanya: Yep.

Jack: So, it late ends to y’all this, this conversation, let’s try to find a price point that works for you. Because what really matters is getting it done.

Rick: All right.

Tanya: Okay.

Jack: So I’ll let y’all finish up.

Tanya: Alright.

Jack: But it was a pleasure to meet you and if you ought to be treated by us, I promise you, we’ll take care of you.

Rick: Sounds good.

Jack: Thank you. It’s nice…

Bart: Well, the-that’s the thing. What’s the treatment? So what is Tanya supposed to sell right now? Do we know? We never really got to it. You know what I mean? And-and what I think, is that he’s assuming it’s All-on-4 Zirconia and we’re just kind of assuming like, that’s what we’re gonna do and we’re gonna let Tanya just sell that, which, okay, fair enough. Um, but again, like, he’s like, you know, it sounds like we need to find a price point. Why don’t we find one right now? Like, what-what’s stopping us from having that conversation right now? Ask ’em, “What do they charge you at ClearChoice? What are you looking for? Can we get something done? Like, that’s it. That’s it. Simple. I don’t want the doctors to run from ’em. I want you guys to kind of, um, you know, tackle that head-on.

I think that this could have been done in the first 10, Tanya could have gotten that information already, to tell the doctor, “Hey, ClearChoice presented x amount. X for the upper and x for the lower. Here’s what it was for the, for the whole mouth. You know, and he liked the price. Um, if we can figure out a way to make sure the maintenance isn’t gonna be a pain for him, maybe include those 2 first visits, right? So he is not paying out of pocket at other offices. We can just prepay that bill for him and beat this price by a little, or whatever it is. Then I think we’re gonna be good.” And then, the doctor knows what the price point is already, can present the treatment and-and we can get somewhere a little bit quicker. But still, first 10, second 10, the guy sounds like he’s kind of dying to tell you what it is, but we still haven’t gotten any information and now it’s a little different because we didn’t present a specific treatment. We don’t have 1 primary recommendation in the second 10. It was more of a conversation about the benefits of working with-with this particular practice. So I’d like to see more specificity there, um, from the doctor so that Tanya and the patient here, exactly what the doctor says, which is, “You’re a great candidate. Here’s where you want to be. This is how I’m gonna treat you to get you there. You’re going to absolutely love it. I think you’re a perfect candidate. Here’s what it is. This is the way I would handle it”. Like, that’s it. If we, we have that, then everyone’s clear, and then we can get to, get to the bundles and go from there.

Jack: Nice to meet you.

Bart: Mm-hmm.

Female Participant 5: Um, is it better to brief the doctor before he enters the room for his 10?

Bart: Oh, the question is: is it better to brief the doctor before the end of the room? Yeah, but I’ve seen it done both ways and I don’t have a problem with either way. You know, if for some reason you can’t talk to the doctor before, if you do a quick overview like that, it’s not bad either because it also gives the patient a moment to interject if they want to. So to me, as long as the doctor is-is up to speed, it doesn’t matter to me. The one thing that you give up when you do it in front of the patient is you kind of take away the doctor’s ability to ask you a question without the patient there.

Brenda: Tanya, Tanya does, they do a behind-the-scenes kind of, you know, handoff, but they always do it in front of the patient, too. So, I like the one in front of the patient.

Bart: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I like it. It’s just if that’s the only one you do. If the doc- if something wasn’t clear for the doctor and they’re actually hearing about it for the first time in front of the patient, you know, a lot of times the doctor’s not going to uh, not going to be able to ask the questions they want to ask perhaps, but I don’t mind either way, right? As long as the doctor knows what the situation is, knows what their urgency level is, how to frame it, and what to do, then the doctor can be extremely efficient in the second 10 and, and then hit all the objectives that are needed. That’s the, that’s the point of-of making sure that they, uh, they’re well prepared.

[door closing]

Tanya: All right, Mr. Whitley. Hello. You already knew you had the bone for it, but yay, you got the bone for it. Okay, so do you mind me asking what was ClearChoice gonna charge you?

Rick: What was…Raleigh’s price? Raleigh had a price…

Bart: And don’t say, “Do you mind?” or whatever. Say, “You know, I’m curious, like, what did Clear Choice actually charge you? Just say it like that. Don’t say, you know, “Can I ask you a question or do you mind if I ask you or this or that?” Don’t even just ask ’em. Just say, “You know, I’m curious. So-so what did Clear Choice actually charge you?”. That’s it. Leave it at that. Like, they’ll-they’ll answer you. Just try not to ask for permission on things like that.

Rick: …of $5300 and…they had a rebate that brought it down to $4500.

Tanya: Hundred or thousand?

Rick: A thousand.

Tanya: Okay. You said hundred. Again, I was like, “Wow, that was a great price!” So they could do it for $45000 for the top and the bottom.

Rick: Right.

Tanya: That is not a problem for me to be able to do at $45000. And keep you local and everything in-house. Um, with our lab being right here and him being able to-to print things upstairs and take care of it. The final…

Bart: Okay, so I want you guys to pay attention here. This is really important. So if you got someone on a second or a third opinion, right? And you get a number out of ’em, as he said, $45000 is what they charged him. He hasn’t moved forward with $45000. Makes sense? Okay, so we still don’t know what number he’s looking for, but we know $45000 doesn’t necessarily work for him cause had he been thrilled with it, he would’ve already done it. You know what I mean? But here’s the thing, if you pull a number from a patient and you guys know that you’re already under the number, you can’t, you don’t want to give it up that early and that easy. Does that make sense? You don’t wanna say, “$50000? Oh geez, I can beat $50000. Don’t worry about it”, like you don’t have to do that. Say, “$50000, well, okay. Well, it’s actually not that high. Interesting. Okay. That’s, that is a good price. That is a good price”. You wanna act like you want them to think that you really have to work to beat that so that when you beat it, it feels like you’re going over and above. Does that make sense? ‘Cause remember, you’re in negotiation here, right? It’s gotta be a win-win for both parties. I want the patient to feel like it’s a win. Make sense? ‘Cause the patient told the doctor, remember, you got- you- I want you to pay attention to what they say when they say, “If we can get this price, you know, as low as we possibly can”. You know, I don’t know what that means, but I know how I need to frame it, right? So if they come in, you pull a price that’s higher, you don’t have to say it immediately. Again, we haven’t gone through the bundle yet, just save your bullets. Save your bullets so that when you shoot, it’s a kill shot. You know what I mean? You don’t have to use ’em immediately, right? You don’t have to do that. You wanna, you wanna make sure that you wait and present it in a way that’s airtight. Okay? Um, but again, like, if we’re gonna do a discount, I want to make them feel like we don’t normally do this. I want to make them feel like, um, they’re really getting something special here. And-and-and in order to do that, you need to take your time a little bit, right? And I don’t wanna meet $45000, necessarily. I don’t know what their prices are, but let’s just say that your price is, uh, let’s say that you guys are doing All-on-4 Zirconia for $20 grand an arch, right? And he says $45000 and you know immediately, “Hey, I can do it for $20 grand an arch if I do 2”. So immediately you’re $5000 under. I wouldn’t want to tell him that right now. You know what I mean? I-I, we’re going to get there, but I wouldn’t want to tell him that right this second.

Tanya: …Zirconia would be made at an outside lab. That’s not gonna mean anything to you because you’re still always gonna come here.

Rick: Right.

Tanya: So that’s not an issue. Um, but let me show you what that package includes. So, technically it would’ve been right at $60000 but I am at $45000 right this second. I do not mind trying to match them. If it means keeping you local and you could take care of things that’s easy for you.

Rick: Well, damn, not bad.

Tanya: Well, I-I think $15000-off is pretty good ’cause this is for 1 arch. So, yeah, I can do $45000 total. Um, and I’ll double…

Bart: That bid I’m not matching, but the point is we haven’t got through the-the bundle yet, so we’re rushing into it ’cause we’re getting excited here. You know what I mean? We’re like, “Okay, we can do that. We can close this case.” We can’t rush into it, right? Because if-if the bundle says $60000, then I’m selling $60000 right now. Getting to $45000 is me coming to them, but if I give ’em $45000 right off the bat, that is my new MSRP. That’s my new starting point. Does that make sense? Because we never got to our starting point, we didn’t build value. And the fact that he said during the second 10 that they’re gonna do 4 implants, and the other doctor that said he does a better job, usually does 6, and he thought that was unique, right? Like, you can build value for it in the $60000, right? For the $60000, you go through the bundle. That’s the whole point. Say, “Listen. We’re more expensive than them for these reasons, right? Because we’re not gonna do anything to jeopardize the clinical outcome ’cause that’s the whole point of the treatment.” You’re not actually buying the treatment, you’re buying with how you’re gonna feel, what your quality of life’s gonna be like, and what you’re gonna look like in the future. That’s what you’re really buying. So anything that we do to reduce the price that jeopardizes that, is not worth it. Does that make sense? Are we in agreeance there? Okay. Let me show you what’s included here”. Okay, because he’s gonna see the $60000. The second that you give him the bundle, let him see the $60000. Don’t go straight to $45000. Don’t discount it immediately. Act like you’re not gonna discount a thing. Sell the hell out of it. You know what I mean? Show ’em that it’s worth it. And you hit things like, “Listen. Like ClearChoice is a company where a lot of times, with those big companies, they have these standard operating procedures, and you know those companies that are owned by private equity groups, they have all this huge overhead, all this national marketing, so they really have to control their costs. What that leads to is doing things the same exact way every single time for every single person. So they have to control their costs. So most of the time they’re gonna be using 4 implants, they’re gonna do it the same way, same way, same way. So they can charge where they can charge and maintain their costs. Does that make sense? But when we looked at your situation, we looked at the CT scan, you’ve got enough bone to place more implants, right? So we’re not gonna place 4. We’re gonna place 6, right? We’re, and we’re gonna include everything so you don’t have all of these follow-up visits. See this includes your 2 follow-up visits that- you’re done for a year. With ClearChoice, you go on, you get the surgery, and then everything else is a la carte. You’re in your pocket every single time you come in for maintenance, you’re paying more, paying more, paying more.” And you have to go through the bundle and you gotta build value for $60000 before you get to what you’re going to do. Does that make sense guys? Really critical. I don’t care if you can blow it out of the water. I don’t care if you guys, I don’t care if you guys are charging $20000 in an arch and they come in with a treatment plan for $40000 an arch. We’re not gonna tell ’em we can beat that immediately. We’re not even gonna tell ’em that that price is unreasonable. It’s kind of the opposite, right? You-you don’t wanna tell ’em that price is super high and you don’t wanna tell ’em, “Oh, I got that,” “Oh, you know, we’re way cheaper than that,” or, “Hey, I can beat that. No problem.” It-it, you’re, you just fired. You just unloaded your clip, right, without aiming. So we wanna make sure that everything is set up properly and just hold, just kind of hold it together. You get excited. You guys hold it together until you’re ready to go with that bundle. Because of the bundle, what it allows you to do is sell all of your competitive advantages. ‘Cause I want the patient thinkin’, “Man, yeah, they’re more expensive, but they’re doing a lot more,” “Hey, they actually have a case for why I should do it here, even though it’s more.” If I can get ’em even thinking about doing it with me at $60000 versus them with $45000, once I get to $45000 or below, it’s done. I’m using that to actually gain commitment now.”. Does that make sense? If you go straight to it, that’s your MSRP. That’s where you’re gonna start the negotiation from.

Tanya: Check with him, make sure he’s okay with me given that allowance, but I don’t see where it would be a major problem. Okay? But I also want you to be aware of what that’s gonna get you. Okay? That is everything from start to finish. So, we include everything in here that gets you from point A, point B, right to that final fixed restoration. So that would be any healing restorations you’re gonna wear in between, all of the post-op visits, any additional surgeries that we have to uncover for any reason which we typically don’t with the fixed. Everything’s exposed up front, but just in case if that ever comes up, it would already be taken cared. I’m not gonna throw any hidden things at you later on, okay? And the final, uh, hybrid package, we also…

Bart: Keep this in mind guys, So what number could you give this guy for him to say, “All right, I’m in. I’m doing it”. What number would that need to be?

Brenda: Laurie, I think you need to go on.

Laurie: Probably like $44500. If I had to give a number, I would’ve just made it $500 less.

Bart: But we’re all guessing, right?

Laurie: [clears throat] Well, if he already said that he was ready to go at $45000…

Bart: But he didn’t, but he didn’t go at $45,000.

Laurie: Because his A1C was too high.

Bart: Okay, but if that was the only reason, and now is A1C’s not too high, why isn’t he back there doing it?

Jack: [inaudible] Hi Darren.

Laurie: Because then now he’s going to see if someone can give him a better price.

Bart: Exactly, so $45000 wasn’t the number. The point is I don’t want to tell them, “Hey, I can do $45000. I can match it”. I want to get to $60000 and once we get to $60000, we build the value, when we sell it, we present it the right way, what’s the downside to asking the patient, “Now listen, I understand kind of where you’re at financially.”

Jack: Let me ask.

Bart: “I’m just a little confused with one thing. I’m trying to figure out what price point you’re looking to get to here. You said $45000 was a price point that you were happy with, that you thought it was a good deal, but you’re not there going through with it. So it’s either the $45000 wasn’t or there was something else kinda holding you back. Do you have a certain number in your head that you’re looking for specifically to say, ‘Hey, if I get- if I can get it for this, I’m in and I’m not looking back’? Or was it not about the $45000 and it was more about the maintenance?” Like, what’s the problem in asking the question before you cut the price down?

Laurie: So when he asked her, like, when she finally said, “Okay, I’m at $45,000.” Then my response should have been back, “Then what held you back from moving forward?” And then he would just say the A1c. Then where would you have gone from there?

Bart: Well, no, he said the A1C a lot earlier. What I’m saying is we never said- we never, if we never said, “Hey, I can do $45000.” We just pitched it as $60000, just pitched the bundle, but before we discount the bundle, you know where you can- what the lowest amount you can get to. So if you know that you can match it, the idea of the negotiation is to win the negotiation before you present a price. And the only way to win a negotiation is to get the-the consumer to tell you what it would take to get a commitment, right now. Does that makes sense?

Laurie: Oh, so if she just came back and said, “You said $45000 and you weren’t happy with that, what number would you be happy?”.

Bart: Yes, what are you looking for? Or is it not so much about the price and it’s more about the maintenance, which one is it? That’s-that’s a quite, I would have loved to ask that question to see what they would say because ideally, like, if I know, if I have an anchor to go by which my anchor right here with this patient is $45000. If I know I can come in lower than that, then I wanna try to nail that patient down before I actually get there, so that when I get there, it’s already done. Meaning, this is a, this is a conceptual close or a theoretic close, which if you guys have noticed from all the training, I do that all the time. I close them in theory first, based on what they want, right? I ask ’em, “Hey, what would you like? Sounds like a number in your head. What are you looking for here?” I try to get them to tell me what they want and that’s a conceptual close, doesn’t mean I’m going to do it, right? But it means if I can do it, it’s done. Does that make sense? because we-we can’t say, “Hey, if I match it, it’s done”, because if that was the case, he wouldn’t have taken the time to go to your practice, and he wants your practice specifically, for information on price.

So what happened is, he thought the $45000 was a good deal. He committed to it. The A1c delayed it, and every day it delayed it, he started thinkin’, “Huh. Maybe you-you know what? Maybe before I do this, maybe I should look around a little bit more. Maybe I can do a little bit better with that price.” And he started thinking and thinking and calling around and there he shows up at a consultation with you, right?

Um, so sometimes a theoretic close, if you have somebody that’s already received pricing, and you know what the pricing is, can be extremely effective. But you want to present the bundle, present the price, and ask the patient, “So let me ask you. So what are you looking for? I know that you, I know that ClearChoice came in lower, you’re getting more here, but just, give me an idea of what you’re looking for in terms of price, ’cause it sounds like you have a number, some type of specific number in your head. You know, are you looking for something $1 less than $45000? Are you looking at $44000, $43000? Like, what would you, what would make you happy and say, ‘Hey, that’s a no-brainer. I’m in?'”

Female Participant 3: Hey, Bart?

Bart: Yes, Ma’am?

Female Participant 3: I want a patient advocate for our patients, um, was there an intake form taken on this patient? Like, do we know the background of it, of anything?

Bart: It’s a good question. I-I, uh, I’m thinking no, because of the way that the consultation started, um, because that “So what brings you in today?” So I don’t think there was a patient intake form in front of Tanya to start the consultation.

Female Participant 3: Okay.

Tanya: …take a lot of pride in doing a big comfort package for you that I have different um, gels and liquids and different things that we use that help in the healing…a small bag of cash? [laughs]

Rick: Uh…that’s another good question. Oh, I’ll-I’ll pay cash for it, but…

Tanya: Okay.

Bart: Hold on, hold on.

Rick: In order to get before…

Tanya: …problems. So, how are you going to be trying to pay for this?

Rick: I was going to sell bottles, give [inaudible].

Tanya: [laughs] You mean a small bag of cash? [laughs]

Rick: Uh…that’s another good question. Oh, I’ll-I’ll pay cash for it, but…

Tanya: Okay.

Rick: In order to get the $45000, I had to go ahead and pay ClearChoice. I paid them in January $45000.

Tanya: Okay.

Bart: There it is.

Rick: So, I’m going to request it back and I won’t get the $44000 back because they charge $1000…

Tanya: To process it, yeah.

Rick: Yeah.

Tanya: I can understand that. Okay, so did you want to at least go ahead and do a down payment now? So that I can reserve our records. I have to have a down payment to do a records appointment, so what that means is we have to do impressions, intraoral scan, so bunch of little things to get him ready to get to do surgery…

Rick: That’s all right.

Tanya: ‘Cause he has to make surgical guides and the healing prosthetic and all that good stuff.

Rick: Well, I really don’t have it right now. I-I would have to call them and see how long it’s going to take to get that money back.

Tanya: Okay, can we do like a $500 to be a hold of records? I had to do the book.

Rick: I’d have to sell my truck.

Tanya: You don’t have to sell your tru- you got to sell your truck, we got a problem for $500. What I’m asking for, is we’re running. I barely have any spots left in April to do a records appointment and we know it’s going to be at least a week after…

Bart: The guy’s not totally done though. You know what I mean? Like, you can tell he’s not totally in. His decision hasn’t been completely made right here yet. I haven’t got that moment where he’s like, “Oh yeah, alright. Well-well, this is better. Let’s do this.” You know what I mean? I haven’t seen him switch yet. He’s still kind of contemplating. And here’s the problem, if he’s already paid them, and with them, with you, it’s the same price, and it looks to be the same and it feels the same, and it’s the same price, and he still has to deal with the same maintenance issue he didn’t like, then why not just stay with them? Does that make sense? Like, why not just stay with them? ‘Cause it’s just another step to request the money back and then pay you. It has to be um, it has to be obvious to him, right now, that it’s worth the effort to go get the money back. Plus, he’s thinking, “Hey, I’m not gonna get $45000 back, I’m only gonna get $44000 back”, so you’re $1000 more than they are. Does that make sense, guys? Okay, so, so I’m thinking like the whole time we’re trying to close him, why is he, why is he hesitating on, uh, $500? Why is he hesitating on the records? Why is he hesitating giving Tanya any money right now?

Laurie: ‘Cause we need to beat it so he-he, she needs to be at $44000 so that he can make up the $1000 and that’s why he’s upset. Or you could say, get their choice on the phone and go ahead and have them refunded [inaudible].

Bart: He hasn’t decided if he’s gonna go with you. That’s the, that’s the bottom-line. He hasn’t made up his mind that he’s going to go with this practice over ClearChoice. You can tell he’s thinking about it, but there’s nothing overwhelming to make it a no-brainer for him. You know what I’m saying? Like, we match the price, everything’s the same with the maintenance, right? But it’s one more step. So there’s nothing obvious and there’s nothing super compelling to win the negotiation right now to where he’s like, “Yeah, we’re gonna do this. Let me make this happen. I’m sure I can get this back and that back because I paid them with cash,” which would be another question, right? “Did you, did you finance or did you pay ’em cash?” Um, it sounds to me like the, like he paid cash, but I would, I would also ask that question. But that’s the thing, in a negotiation, it’s all perspective. His perspective, his point-of-view needs to be that our treatment is so much better than theirs and he wins on every front. It’s a better product. It’s a better experience at a better price. We win all three of them right here. It’s a no-brainer. He does it. Does that make sense?

Female Participant 5: I have a question.

Bart: Yes, ma’am.

Female Participant 5: Um, at what point was the patient presented with the plan other than showing this is our bundle. Like, is it something that he’s still confused about because he still doesn’t know what he’s getting.

Bart: I agree, so we missed that in the second 10, you know what I mean? So, Tanya’s kind of going through, “Hey, this is what we’re gonna do”, and you know, she went through the bundle of the- the All-on-4 Zirconia is what they’re closing on here, but…is he confused?

I don’t know, because he didn’t ask a whole lot of questions in terms of what it is, they’re kind of assuming he already knows what it is because the third consultation but again, I-I don’t, I see your point 100%. I have the same exact feedback during the second 10. It is critical that the doctors get that part done for the treatment coordinators. And if you guys are in a second 10, sometimes the dialogue kind of going in a different direction, and if the doctor doesn’t get time to make it very clear what it is before that doctor leaves, prompt the doctor. You know what I mean?

Female Participant 5: Yeah.

Bart: Oh, oh, can you, can you make sure real quick just before we end just to make sure everyone’s clear, can you just kind of go through the nuts and bolts of the- the all-on-4? How many visits it’s gonna take, and just kind of talk about the material and the aesthetic component? Right, like just prompt them whatever you need before that second 10 ends, prompt the doctor so that the doctor gets there for you, and you guys don’t have to do all that ’cause it-it-it, when that’s not done, the second ten takes double the time, and it’s not the same coming from you as it is the doctor. That’s the only thing we need from the doctors. Yes, you’re a candidate to help create the urgency…

Jack: [inaudible]

Bart: …if you want to be, and here’s what we want to do.

Jack: So can I ask a follow-up question?

Bart: Yes, Sir.

Jack: So, i-if so, if we clarified it. We’re talking forged Zirconia, then we truly are just, determining whether not we gonna match this guy’s price I mean, whether or not, I- and I’m guessing there’s some form of way to set that up, I mean, if you’re doing in-house milling and things like that, so literally it is just a bargain shopper and you’re-you’re willing to meet a bargain shopper’s price, if…

Bart: But who said this guy, but who said this guy’s hell-bent on Zirconia? Who said he wouldn’t, he wouldn’t go for an all-on-4 with a printed prosthetic, or a hybrid?

Jack: Sure, that-that’s where I was heading, because you know, I mean, if-if he can get uh, if he can go and he feels comfortable with the treatment, he’s gonna get for $45000 for all on, all-on-4 Zirconia but I guess we just hadn’t gotten there. My question was “Well, I’m not willing to bend that much on my price, but I think I just hadn’t waited for you to follow up with, ‘Now, we’re gonna get to, we can get you there but this is how we’re gonna get you there.'”

Bart: I would have gone through it in the second 10, right? So if I’m the doctor and I hear that, then I’m saying, “Listen, clinically, here’s the nice thing, right? The nice thing is you’re gonna have some options here. All of those options, from a clinical standpoint, would work for you. Clinically, you’re a candidate for all of these different things. Which one you’re gonna go with? There’s two components to it: what you want as far as an outcome and where you want to be as far as price.”

Jack: Okay.

Bart: “The first thing, let’s tackle the outcome. What do you want in terms of your level of aesthetics? Because what level of aesthetics you want, is going to tell me what material to make the teeth out of, right? A lot of places they do it one way. They don’t give you any options, but that’s not reality. The reality is, you’re going to have options, and any of the fixed options that we can do that you’re a candidate for, are light years ahead of your partial. So, you’re better off any which way you cut it. It’s all about what you want and what price you wanna pay, we’re gonna get that straight right now.” And then I would get their commitment on it, right? And then get their commitment on price, and then match the treatment ’cause the the guy has money. He already paid them $45000 cash. You would have gotten that out of him probably right there in the second 10. But remember, our advantage over ClearChoice, ClearChoice does not, does not talk to them, when it comes all-on-4, there’s one price and there’s one way to do it. That’s our, that’s our strategic advantage from a sales and negotiation standpoint, and that’s how we can get the patient committed to a price and an outcome to where we don’t have to push a treatment. I just match the treatment to what the patient says. The questions just have to be asked the right way, at the right time. Does that make sense?

Female Participant 3: But what if he didn’t…

Bart: Because I don’t care if the patient does Zirconia or a printed prosthetic or a hybrid, like it doesn’t matter to me. From a doctor perspective, you’re a, you’re a candidate for any of them. I just care that the expectation is set correctly and you know what you’re gonna get as far as an outcome and that you can do the price. Which one? I could do any one of them? Instead of presenting all three, why don’t you tell me what’s most important to you when it comes to price, you’re at $45000. What kind of price point are you looking for? And just get in, just get into the conversation. But no, you don’t have to ever… like sometimes you’ll have people that will be, they’ll come in and say, “Hey, this doctor was gonna do Zirconia for $20000, and you guys, the price you want to be at is $24000”. Well, who said they’re hell-bent on Zirconia? They never got another fixed option. So, we have a way to beat the $20000or the $21000 with a printed prosthetic. Just setting a different kind of expectation and sometimes, depending on where they’re at, the patient will trade off the highest level of aesthetics, function, longevity, for a reduction in price, especially if they’re cash pay and they don’t have credit…So, the- from a doctor’s standpoint in the second 10, you guys are thinking, “You’re closing all the time”. It doesn’t matter clinically, you’re-you’re looking at the CT, you can do it one of 3 ways, 1 of 4 ways, 1 of 5 ways. Whatever the situation is, you can handle a lot of different ways. You’re trying to make sure that they know what they’re gonna expect and that you guys know that it’s something that’s sellable, meaning he’s looking for a price point $45000 or below. You don’t present them with a price point of $65000 or $70000 because that-that’s kind of pointless. Like nobody can close that deal. You have to be somewhere in the vicinity there.

Female Participant 5: But what I felt that she could have done was, even if she offered the $60000 for the $45000, what differentiated her office from their choice? The doctor did mention 6 implants. Is their choice at 6 or 4? So right off the bat, she would have given him a $45000-treatment plan, a $60000 treatment plan for $45000, but offered the patient more implants. And that’s what it would have differentiated them from ClearChoice and maybe he would have went with them.

Bart: That’s the exact point of going through the bundle, that itemized bundle, right? Because you guys are in the consultation the whole time you’re in the first 10, second 10, and you’re closing in the third. So, all of these things that you heard, they’re in your, they’re in your memory bank. You don’t answer ’em right then, and you don’t nail ’em right then when they come up, ’cause it ruins the flow of what you’re trying to do where you really make the difference obvious. With huge contrast between you and the other practice is when you start going through the bundles. And when you get to the implant part, you nail it. When you get to the maintenance part, you nail it, when you get to the warranty, you nail it, nail it, nail it, nail it, nail it, for the $60000, right? You’re nailing all of that before you start changing prices or reducing the price. Ideally, I reduce the price when I know what price I need to hit. That’s the best-case scenario because already theoretically closed. But I-I agree 100% with what you said. And um, that’s the entire point of the bundle. And that’s why I always say, the biggest mistake that’s made with treatment coordinators when you guys close, is you take out the bundle and you immediately give it to ’em. You immediately take it out, and because that high price is there, you guys say, “Okay, so let’s go through what’s on the treatment. Now look, I know it says this amount, but that’s not actually what you’re gonna pay. You’re gonna pay a lot less.” You mess the whole thing up, mess the whole thing up, right? We don’t wanna go there. You wanna sell it and-and nail all of your competitive advantages so it’s crystal clear. I want them to be thinking about doing it for $15000 more with you, seriously thinking about it. So that when the price comes down, if it’s anywhere even close, it’s a no-brainer. That makes sense? And remember, like you don’t want this to happen to you what-what is happening to ClearChoice right now. Now, what did ClearChoice do? They didn’t- what did he say? Did you, did you guys catch that? He said in order to get the 45, he had to what?

Female Participant 5: pay for it.

Bart: You had to pay for it right then.

Female Participant 3: Yep.

Bart: Make sense? So they traded a discount for an immediate commitment. Does that make sense?

Female Participant 3: Yep.

Female Participant 5: Quick question if I could.


Female Participant 5: What images are-are there at and that are reviewed either at the first or second 10 to tell him what he is a candidate for?

Bart: In the second 10 they had the CT scan pulled up. It was just, it was on a screen behind the doctor. He referenced it, but I-I kind of skipped through that part where…

Female Participant 5: Alright, I just wanted to make sure because I-I noticed him looking behind ’em a couple of times. So in that first 10, where they’re getting a CT and then they’re doing the first 10 with the treatment coordinator.

Bart: Well, you do the first 10. And then after the first 10, the assistant takes the patient to do the CT and you talk to the doctor. CT’s done. It’s pulled up and the operatory, or the console, wherever you’re going to do it, and the doctor comes in. That’s typically, but I mean you can do it ahead of time if you want, also it can work.

Jack: We also used models. There’s models in the room that are used as well.

Bart: Mm-hmm.

Jack: And I did in the beginning of the second 10. I didn’t say all next, which I might want to change my verbiage, but I did look at her and say, “Seems like we all know we want to do a full arch fixed prosthetic,” and so we did review that, but I might need to make it more clear to the patient.

Bart: Yeah, and just make it clear like I would use different verbs. Like what they want to do as far as treatment doesn’t matter, right? Because what they want is whatever the outcome is that it that you defined. Makes sense? You tell them what the treatment is. They don’t tell you and-and I don’t care what they want, ’cause if what they want doesn’t match with the outcome, that with the goal of the treatment, then I need to correct that, right? You- w- then you’re gonna correct that as the doctor. So it’s just different. It’s just a little bit different language, a little stronger language right there. It’s really, really, really I-I feel like that’s really gonna help you because like you got a really good um, rundown of where they are, what the current state is. The only thing that you didn’t get from Tanya, right there, was what-what he wants, right? How important, scale 1 to 10, aesthetics, function, maintenance, longevity. And if those things add up to All-on-4 Zirconia, then easy. No problem.

Then it’s just a price thing from there, um but if the price is more important than the outcome, and he’s willing to go a little bit less outcome for a lot of savings on price, again, that’s kind of the conversation that you guys can have right there. But your whole thing is, “Hey, I can’t make any recommendation just because you come in and say you want All-on-4, that doesn’t mean anything to me.” Right? Because what if you say you want All-on-4, I give All-on-4 and you’re not happy with the outcome? Or what if you come in and you say, “I want implant-supported dentures?” Well, the only reason you want implant-supported dentures is because you think it’s the cheapest thing, but what if you’re gonna hate it later? It’s not worth it. That’s not worth it. It’s not worth it for either one of us to do it

Woman 4: Yeah, [inaudible] how she’s gonna be that in the past so…

Bart: So you’re gonna ask those questions if you don’t get it from the treatment coordinator. The doctor then has to start doing the treatment coordinator’s job. And the doctor has to say, “Okay, listen. Based on everything I’m seeing clinically, I could do this a lot of different ways.

That’s the good news,” right? “I have a couple different ways that I can do this. Which way I’m going to recommend ultimately depends on what you want as an outcome. So let’s take a second and let’s talk about it, because in-in reality you’re not buying the treatment. You’re buying how you’re going to feel, look, and function years down the line. That’s what you’re buying here, and I want to make sure we’re clear on that. So what are you looking for as far as aesthetics? What are you looking for as far as maintenance? What you looking for as boom, boom, boom?” And you set it up to where you just match the treatment for that. So if you guys if if all the doctors can clinically, you can handle a lot of different ways. Just make sure that you’re anchoring. You’re not pushing a treatment, you’re just matching the treatment to the outcome. And once you have that, you’re 90% of the way there. And then the only thing they’re left is when he says now, “Hey, if we can just get it as low as you can say. I know you, I know you said that price is a big concern for you. You’ve already been into a couple of different practices. Let me ask it. You have a specific price point your head. Tell me what it is. Tell me where you looking to be. What kind of price point do you want? Because I understand what you want as far as a clinical outcome, but there’s no sense in going through and taking a bunch of time and energy and talking about something that financially isn’t feasible or-or-or something that’s not palatable for you. That’s also another factor.”

Woman 4: Needing

Bart: “I know this treatment is gonna get you everything that you want, but what price point are you trying to be at right now? Clearly you weren’t happy with the price points you received from the other practice. That’s why you’re here. Let’s have a frank, a frank and open and honest conversation about that. What do you want in terms of price? Where are you looking to be?” And ask the question, like we’re closing all the time. That makes Tanya’s job super, super easy in the next, in the final 10. But even if the doctor’s not comfortable taking it that far, at least if we get the outcome match the treatments to the outcome when we’re clear on what the treatment is and the patient agrees, then the treatment coordinator we can do that um, later. And I think maybe we just weren’t worried about it because we know that we’re comparable in terms of price, but sometimes you get someone coming in saying, “Hey, I got a price point for $16,000, and you know you’re at $25000. So again, you’re gonna handle that a little bit differently. Um, do I have anymore, anymore questions in the chat?

Woman 2: Ah, yes. There was somebody that said, “I would love to hear how you would position the long-term temp instead?”

Bart: I wouldn’t position the long-term temp unless the price point in which they want to be at is significantly lower than the price point for Zirconia. So um, if we had that whole discussion, they’re like and he’s like, “Look. They gave me $45000, but that’s still way outside of my budget. I need to be somewhere more along the lines of, you know, $30000 to $35000. I need about $10000 less, which isn’t the case here. But let’s just say, if that’s what he said, say, “Okay. So you need to be $10,000 less. We’ll look, there’s a way that we can do it. We can get you that price point, but well we have to really talk about to make sure that we’re clear on is that you said that the most important thing is that you have a 10 out of 10 in terms of function, aesthetics, maintenance and longevity, right? In order to do that, I have to build, I have to, I have to build the teeth and create the teeth with a certain type of material that’s going to be a little bit harder. That’s going to look a little better, more aesthetically pleasing. We have to place the implants in a certain manner. We have to do things in order to achieve that. Would you be willing, instead of a 10/10/10, to maybe go to a 6 or a 7? Instead of a 10 out of 10 in terms of function, a 7 out of 10. Instead of a 10 out of 10 in terms of a maintenance, a 7 out of 10. If you’re willing to trade off there, then I can help you with the money side, but you’re not gonna get $10,000 less and maintain the same level of aesthetics, function and longevity that you would have with this. But I can still get you into something that’s fixed, significantly better than where you are. It’s just not to the same level. Would that be a trade-off that you would be willing to make? Because I always sell the outcome. So if I’m going to change the, if I’m gonna change the uh, the recommendation, the first thing I have to do is change the expectation and the outcome and gain the grants that they’re willing to trade-off the outcome to-to save in the money.

But if-if they gave me a dollar amount that, what that didn’t deviate much from Zirconia, then I wouldn’t even go there. Because I know that with almost any second or third opinion, I can come in probably $2000 to $4000 or $5000 more in a double large situation and still get the case closed. Because I can show that we’re going to do so much more. I can still, I can close the case if we’re anywhere near, we should be able to get it done if we’re anywhere near. If we beat it, God, well then, it’s-it’s then-then it’s an-an obvious no-brainer, but that’s the key. The key is you don’t change the treatment plan just because of the price and then let it go because in their head, they might still be thinking, “Oh, it’s pretty much the same outcome, except it’s $10000 less. All right, I’ll do that.” Then you do it. And then two months later, they’re coming in talking about the midlines not right. They don’t like the look of the teeth, or this, that, or the other, and you got a nightmare on your hands. They would have been better off not doing the case at all. Makes sense, guys? That was a really, really good consultation and Tanya did a really good job with her tone, really good job being a-a figure authority and trying to help the patient. Um, and I think this is something that you guys are right there. We just need to smooth it out a little bit. But this is a guy that’s qualified and you can probably still close ’em. But you wanna make sure that, like, you know, leave no doubt. Leave no doubt in those situations. You’re the third stop. I want commitment today. In order to get a commitment, it’s gotta be a no-brainer. I’m gonna win on every single front against ClearChoice. I’m not letting this guy out. The fact that he’s here, he’s already doubting the things they said. He’s already doubting the price, already doubting the process and the value, so I just need to win on all fronts, you know. And make sure you keep the bullets in the gun. Don’t rush to answer every question.

Don’t rush to tell them you can beat it, even if you can. Wait for the right time when you present the price, sell it, and then close it, and then beat it to where it’s a no-brainer. So try that and make sure that you guys have that patient intake form, so that you’re patient-leading from the beginning but I’m gonna take uh, I’m gonna take this example. Because this is a really good one, where you can use a specific language pattern for somebody that’s already made somewhat of a commitment at another practice, either a deposit or a half pay or a full pay and they’re trying to use that commitment as a way to delay with you. I think that would be a really good topic for the next training, when they have a built-in kind of delay excuse from another practice, even though they didn’t really commit, they’re using that as an excuse. I think that-that-that’ll be a really good uh, training for the next call. Cool? Alright, guys. We’ll go close some marches. Make some money. Go make it rain.

Woman 4: Bart, I had a question.

Bart: Yes, ma’am.

Woman 4: Um, so when I go over the bundles, sometimes they cut me off and they look at the end total price, they’re like, “It’s $60000?” Do I- I usually continue going on, but if they stop me and they don’t want to listen to anything but just look at that final, what do I do in that situation?

Bart: You wanna, like we’re-we’re gonna- everybody, for the most part, is going to have that response. It’s just whether or not they verbalize it. You know what I mean? So- and that’s kind of the point. I want them thinking it’s high and then the whole point of going through the bundle is we’re basically just define the price and showing them that, “Yeah, you pay more, but you get more.” Right? That way, it makes it all the better when we tell them the story about how we can do it for less for them. You know what I mean? So don’t panic when they say that. Say, “I know.” Say, “Hey, I’m gonna get to, I’m gonna get to the price. The main thing is I wanna, I wanna be clear here is that you’re not actually- remember, you’re not buying the treatment you’re buying the outcome. So the most important thing is that we include everything and we don’t omit anything that could have a negative impact on your quality of life after the treatment is done. Anything that we omit trying to reduce the price that would affect the qu- the-the outcome is diminishing returns, right? It doesn’t make sense. So we over engineer this thing to work. We include more than anybody else in the area that you’re ever going to talk to and it looks like a lot because it is a lot because it’s important. So I’m gonna go through this line by line and then we’re gonna get to the money. Okay? So look, here’s what it starts with. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.” You know what I mean? I want to justify. It’s where they’re not freaking out about the money then I mean the, you know, the negotiation, that’s like the sledgehammer. But if you open with the negotiation and you come to ’em too quickly, you-you eliminate all of your advantage, so it’s a timing issue, right? Your timing’s all off when you do it. It’s like, it’s like a, it’s like bad timing on the punchline of a joke. Like if you have a- someone tells a joke and they mess up when they tell a punchline, the joke doesn’t deliver the same impact. It’s the same exact thing with a close. It’s all timing, so there are certain things you know you got. Like, “Oh, I got you. I got you.” You don’t say it right then. You keep it right. You keep that to yourself or, “Hey, hmmm. That Doctor has a little advantage on me there.” You don’t tell them that or, “Hey, they don’t like this about the last doctor? Well, same thing with us.” You don’t tell them that right there. You keep it all, right? That’s your advantage.

You can keep them on the same track and you’re going to have time in between the first and the second 10, and in between the second 10 and third 10 to organize all of your thoughts and frame the close in the most compelling manner. But you guys do it on your terms and-and take your time, and when you deliver that blow it’s like it’s 1 sledgehammer and that’s it. It’s a done deal. So we’ll go through that. This was a tough one because he’s like, “Hey, I can’t pay you anything until I pay them.” I know the guy could pay 500 bucks now if he really wanted to. You know, he could pay 500 bucks if he really wanted to. The reality is he didn’t see any clearing it, in a parent advantage and doing it with them over ClearChoice and that’s, that’s what his hesitation was. It just wasn’t obviously better. “It might have been equivalent, but if it’s equivalent why don’t I just do it there, and then I’ll have to go through this whole dog and pony show about requesting my money back from them, paying you, rescheduling everything, right? Like, why go through that if it’s all, if all things are equal?” That’s exactly what’s going through his mind right then, okay? I’ll work on that for the next training uh, in terms of how to handle some of that stuff with some specific language for you, but you guys get back to it. Go close somebody. Make some money. You need anything you let me know, okay?

Participants: Thank you. Thank you, Bart. Bye.

Bart: Thank you, guys. Alright. Awesome and awesome job, Tanya. Alright. Bye bye.

Tanya: Thank you, guys.

Woman 3: Way to go, Tanya


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