Fontainebleau Miami Beach, FL
December 1st & 2nd
The Closing Institute’s Full-Arch Growth Conference
Bart Knellinger: What’s up guys?
[Participants responding in unison]
Bart: Hey, hey, just gonna give everybody a minute to, uh, to log on here. We gonna see any of you guys in Vegas this week? [background noise] Yeah? Vegas trip. Funny, that’s a, that’s a destination that we always have a lot of people want to come to for some reason, I don’t know why.
Woman 1: [Giggles] [inaudible] imagine.
Bart: I’s Super Bowl weekend too, it’s like super busy over there.
Woman 1: Yes.
Maninder Matharu: It also seems like all conventions are there this week. I have a co-work-, I have a friend who’s there for his company and my parents, they own a 7-Eleven, and 7-Eleven’s having their convention there this week as well.
Bart: Hold on, a 7-Eleven convention? [Background Noise]
Maninder: Oh, they’re amazing.
Maninder: I’ve been to a couple, like, you get free samples of everything. All the new products, all the new chips [Indistinctive Voices] flavors and drinks flavors [inaudible]
Bart: Like you’re getting the newest Slurpee, if you show up [laughter] [inaudible]
Maninder: Yeah, and it’s all free, like, you’ll see people leave with bags and bags of, like, candy and snacks. It’s crazy.
Woman 2: [Inaudible] wow.
Bart: 7-Eleven [inaudible]
[Indistinctive background voice]
Bart: Letting everybody log on here guys.
Woman 3: I am on the meeting right now.
Bart: Has been closing [inaudible], January’s?
Maninder: [Inaudible] four arches for our office this month.
Bart: Jeez[?] [inaudible] [Background Noise]
Lori Janes: I did, um, I did eight for January.
Bart: Nice, Nice. Cool. Cool, cool. cool. [Humming]. January seems to be a pretty good start for a lot of, a lot of our doctors. Um, after December seem to be down a little [inaudible] [background noise] [clears throat] kicked off the new year on the right foot. So, that was pretty cool.
Bart: And you guys make sure, because, beginning of the year, make sure you have time to talk with your doctor…
Bart: …figuring out which power sessions, you’re going to attend. It’s much easier to just we-welcome in advance, welcome in advance. That way, we won’t run up to like the last second and then we’re at, right. And any of you that have been to our session, we have a capacity of like, you know, 120. So, we’re still getting a lot of people like the same month, you know, that want to attend and then it’s at capacity and then… There’s a whole thing. So if we know in advance, that’s a lot easier. Plus, it’s just done, it’s on your calendar and you’re done.
Bart: Okay. So, what I want to go through with you guys today, is I want to talk a little bit about, um, about the second 10. Wanna talk about the set up for it and then the doctor portion. Um, I’m seeing some things with the videos that I think that you could be operating a little bit better as a team, with your doctor. And there’s just a couple things we have to make sure happens when the doctor’s done speaking with the patient. All right?
The, the first thing I just wanna make sure everybody’s doing, that you guys are filling out the form that I gave you during the first 10 and taking at least a minute, right, to talk to the doctor, before the doctor walks into the consultation room with the patient. I wanna make sure that happens. If that doesn’t happen, there’s kind of no reason for the first 10, to be honest with you, ’cause now, the doctors kind of like, rehashing everything that you just spoke about, and they shouldn’t have to do that. The whole point is that you’re there to save the doctor time. So the doctor can still get all of the critical information, they need, so they don’t have to ask the same questions that you just asked the patient before the doctor walks in. Um, everything they need to know is, is nice and neat, very neatly organized, on that one sheeter[?].
So if you can fill that out, talk to the doctor, your job is to prepare the doctor for, hey, this is why they’re here, right? This is where their pain points are, this is what they want. Money came up, this was the dollar they gave me or money didn’t come up, here’s their sense of urgency. You know, and gi-give the doctor the basic. So the doctor doesn’t have to come in and say, “Hey, tell me about yourself. Tell me why you’re here.” Like, they should definitely already know that. Does that make sense? Or any, or any of y’all have a problem finding time to get with your doctor before they walk in the room? [Silence]. No? Okay.
Make sure, let’s make sure that that happens. Try to make sure that happens all the time. No matter what, otherwise, they’re gonna start right back from the be-beginning. Okay, so that’s number one. Number two, we wanna really make sure that, like…in order to close the case, what do you need from the doctor? What do you have to have from the doctor in order to close the case the same day? What’s the most important thing that you need from the doctor? Somebody tell me. The most important.
Payel Das: The confidence to do this, accept the case.
Woman 4: Urgency.
Bart: You need a, you need a recommendation. You need the treatment plan. And all those other things too. But you need one primary, you don’t need to [[background conversations] [inaudible] one, right? That’s the most important thing is that the doctor knows where they are, where they’re trying to get to and they give them the best treatment plan, the treatment plan that makes the most sense to go from point A, to point B. That’s what you need. You don’t need three of them and you don’t need a brainstorming session with the doctor. This is something that we, we really have to work on here cause it’s starting to create some problems, where the doctors like, “Well, you know, we could do this and we can do that, and we could do this and we could do that” and like it doesn’t really matter what you can do. What matters is what are we going to do, right? Because the patients don’t know. They’re looking to you and the doctor to tell them what to do.
If you say, “Well, you can do, or what would you like? Would you like this or like that?” Like that’s wrong, that’s wrong. Okay, so it’s where are you now? Where do you want to be in terms of function, feel, aesthetic, longevity maintenance, where do you want to be? How do you want this…? What’s, what quality of life, what clinical outcome are we looking for? Okay, this is what you’re looking for in terms of a, uh, clinical outcome, this is where you are. This is the treatment plan, period. This is gonna get you all those things. That’s it, like, done.
You know, we wanna try to avoid a brainstorm session where we’re giving people too much to think about. We’re giving them too many options and the doctor seems, um, I’ve seen several videos where the doctor’s almost indifferent about which way to go. He’s like, “Well, I could do it like this or I could do it like that.” You can have this or you can have that, but we shouldn’t, right? Because all of those different options deliver a clinical outcome that’s different. It’s not, it doesn’t matter what they’re a candidate for. It matters what their expectation is and what they’re expecting after the treatment. So, the treatment is, the treatment we recommend, should mirror the outcome that we’re trying to achieve. And there should be one that does that better than anything else. Does that make sense?
But if we walk in there and we don’t have that sheet filled out and the doctor doesn’t know what they want in terms of, you know, function or aesthetics or maintenance. They don’t know anything about the clinical outcome then they’re gonna have to go back and, and do that. A-and that’s, that’s your job from the first hand. And if they don’t do it, they’re gonna, I’m telling you, they’re just gonna look at the scan and we’re just gonna start talking, right? About all the different ways that we could do it or couldn’t do it and it’s just a complete waste of time. To be honest with you, it’s irrelevant, the conversation’s irrelevant, right?
We’re not talking about what we can do. Who cares what we can do? They might be, I mean, they’re a candidate for regular dentures too, you know what I mean? They’re a candidate to, you know, remain with no teeth. It doesn’t matter what they’re a candidate for. [[background conversations] It’s just what is the whole point here? What are we trying to achieve? Right? Here’s how I’m gonna get you from this point, to this point. You’re a perfect candidate for it, this is what we’re gonna do. It’s gonna give you everything you want. That’s what we need. Then you guys have a treatment plan that makes perfect sense to the patient, in their head, where they are and where they wanna be, makes perfect sense. And you have the confidence from the doctor, that you can give the patient. That they’re gonna, that we’re going to [inaudible] exceed their expectations, with the said treatment plan. If we don’t have it, like there’s way, there’s way too much that I’m seeing, there’s way too much conversating going on. It’s just a lot of talk right now, back and forth, between you and the patient and with the doctor and the patient. And it doesn’t seem like the treatment coordinators are on same, the same page with the doctor, as far as what is the point of the consultation.
I don’t want, I want to start working on that, because it’s gonna help you in the third 10 tremendously. How do you close a case in the third 10, if the doctor didn’t make one recommendation with conviction? We’re just gonna let the patient pick. Um, you know, nine times out of 10, they’re gonna pick the lowest one, right? But what if they pick the lowest one, and their expectations are still of the higher one? Then you have somebody that’s complaining after the fact, you got a patient that’s unhappy with the results, but they got the exact result that was supposed to be achieved from that treatment plan. It just wasn’t straight in their mind. Does that make sense?
So, there should never be a scenario where there’s two options or three options. The only time it’s a scenario, right? Is when the patient’s like, “Oh, that’s good, that’s good. You know, I can’t really afford too much,” or this, that, and the other and then the doctors kinda default to giving them, well, you know, you could always start with this or that, that, and we start brainstorming. Brainstorming with these guys, it’s a bad idea. We’re just gonna get ’em thinking and they’re gonna overthink it, and they’re gonna have to call you back[chuckle]. They’re gonna have to think about it. We’re giving ’em, them the objection, right? So if there’s a money issue, somebody tell me [background noise] what [inaudible] take place immediately?
Woman 5: Possible[?]
Bart: What’s the conversation if there’s a money issue?
Kelsey Taylor: What is their budget and what is their need? So we can make one directly for them.
Bart: Exactly. Exactly, and you always anchor on the outcome. So say, “Listen, the only reason why we’re recommending this treatment plan, is because based on where you are, right? And everything you want to avoid and based on what you want, right? On, it’s, you know, Ashley tells me you want a 10 out of 10, in terms of function, a 10 out of 10, in terms of aesthetics and something’s gonna last for a really long time, be extremely durable. Something you’re not gonna have to redo, right? This is the treatment plan that’s gonna get those things. Now, if you said you have a, you have a budget to work with, there’s no reason going through a treatment plan, if it’s not feasible from a financial point of view, right? There are other ways that I can do, that I can treat you and help you, but all those different ways, they might have a different clinical outcome. So give me an idea, in terms of the budget, what do you wanna stay within? Give me an idea so we can walk, we can talk this through.”
But they don’t leave the second 10 without a very clear idea of what they’re gonna do. Does that make sense? The last thing we want to do, is start brainstorming options with them. The, the, calls go off the rails so fast. [Chuckles] I mean, they get like s-, hard to watch because we’re, we’re talking and we’re, we’re just not moving in the right direction. We’re actually getting further and fur-, ou-our probability of closing the case, is just nose-diving during the second ten, you know. Because you can see the look on the patient’s face, like they don’t wanna make the decision, they just want you to just make it easy, just tell them what to do. That’s kind of what all of us want from a doctor, right?
Bart: This is how I wanna look, this is how I wanna feel. Tell me what to do, tell me what to do. That’s what we need to do. And if, if a doctor tells me what to do and I can’t do it financially, then tell me what I can do, that’s the best that I can afford. We’ll start from there. Okay, this is what I… If that’s your budget, your son’s gonna put you in the ballpark, you know. It’s not gonna be a 10, 10, 10. You know what I mean? The function’s not gonna be the same, the aesthetics, all these things are gonna change. Here’s about what you can expect, but it’s still night and day difference from where you are now and it’s something you can afford and it’s something you can work into later. You know, that’s the conversation, but we have to get better at making sure that in the third 10, the treatment coordinator has one treatment plan to close and the doctor has instilled confidence that the treatment plan makes sense. They’re a good candidate and they’re gonna get a phenomenal result. That’s what needs to happen. It’s not happening that often.
More times than not, still, the treatment plan, the treatment coordinator’s going in into the third 10, with more than one option, more times than not. You guys have any comment on that or anything that you want to discuss before I start playing the, uh, playing the video? Or anything that you might need help with? ‘Cause it’s not like it’s, it’s like, hey, one office or two offices. It’s like, this is generalized.
Kelsey: Our office does that a lot. Where my doctors give like four options from zirconia, all the way to traditional dentures, um, which is a big struggle for us. So, I was gonna say, what I’ve tried to start learning, was when it’s an all on four, we always go for zirconia and then once we get to the point of, we didn’t finance, we can afford that, then we start going down to the other plans of, “Hey, that’s what you wanted, but we can’t do that right now, but I did have these other options I can go over with you.” Is that kind of how you’re saying to go through it?
Bart: Yeah, but the, I think the issue is, like, how does it make sense… First off, when the patient says, “Hey, this is what I want.” If they’re referencing a treatment, well, that’s not really their department, nor do they want the treatment, right? They want some type of outcome, they wanna feel a certain way and look a certain way and function a certain way. The problem is, that’s not being well defined, right? So, if that’s not well defined, then you have no North Star when recommending a treatment plan, because the, uh, the truth is, yeah, clinically, they could do any of these. Right? But the que-, the big question is, what does the patient want? It’s not the treatment plan. What do they want? They want some type of feeling, function, look in the future. That needs to be defined and clearly communicated to the doctor and then we’re asking the doctor, “Hey, yeah, here’s their current state. Take a look at the diagnostics. See if they’re a candidate for implants, but this is what we’re, [background noise] this is what they want. They want maximum function, maximum stability, they want very, very good aesthetics and they don’t wanna have to do this thing over. They wanna get it done right the first time.
In order to get the patient, all these things. What would you recommend? I mean, would implant supported dentures even be on the list? [background conversations]. Like, would it d-, would it even ma-, would it make any sense to recommend it at all, if that’s what the patient’s looking for? [background conversations]. Would it make sense, anybody?
Woman 6: No [inaudible] make sense.
Bart: No, it wouldn’t, It would make zero sense. So…
Woman 6: I think, sorry[?], I think what she was saying, or maybe I’m wrong, is, yeah, okay, one in one hand and should[?] on the other and I’m hearing what you want, and I’m doing everything possible to give you what you want. But they’re just not reciprocating back…
Woman 7: Yes, you got it.
Woman 6: [Inaudible] And I’m gonna go and take it out of my 401(k). Okay, I’m touching a base with them and it’s just like, poof! Gone.
Bart: We have we haven’t got to the money yet.
Woman 6; Okay, cool.
Bart: You know what I mean? The money hasn’t come up yet. This is just…
Woman 6: This is just what they want and what I can give you, period. The outcome [inaudible]
Bart: What you… This is the patient telling me what they want and us, as the professionals explaining to them how to achieve it. There’s not five ways to achieve [background noise], you know, a specific clinical outcome. You know what I mean? All the, the reason why there are different treatments, is because they give you different outcomes. If they all gave you the same outcome, there wouldn’t be different treatments, there would just be one way. You know what I’m saying? A denture is not the same as an over denture. Right? That locator case and snap and smile, it’s not the same, it’s fixed. And fixed isn’t the same, depending on the material. That’s why there’s variations, because each variation has a different outcome. That, the, the biggest problem right now, is the doctor is not aware of the clinical outcome that they’re trying to achieve. That’s why they’re talking in hypotheticals and you guys are going back to, uh, a, a hypothetical close.
Let, l-let me try to put it another way. So it would be like me speaking with your doctor, about growing the practice, right? Or advertising. I say, “We’ll listen, based on where you are and your, your market and all that stuff, you know, I could pro-, I could advertise for you, one of 10 ways. I could do this, this, this, this, this, this. All right, which one do you want?” Why would that make absolutely no sense? [chuckles]. Well, there’s an infinite number of ways that I could do it, none of which are relevant. The only thing that’s relevant is figuring out, all right, where do you want to see the practice in the future? Where do you wanna be in 12 months? Where do you wanna be in 24 months? What business model are we gonna have? Be specific. And based on that data, that data guides me in my thought process, in terms of [inaudible] plan together.
If I don’t have the data, it’s literally impossible for my brain to reconcile making a recommendation. Because it’s a recommendation to get nowhere. It’s like, trying to get, create a map with a GPS, without entering a, a destination.[Inaudible] not gonna be able to do it. You know what I’m saying? So they don’t need [background noise] all the options in the world. They need the option that makes the most sense for, based on where they are, and where they want to be, clinically, right? I-in terms of the quality of life in their everyday function. That’s the whole thing. It’s just not happening, and, and we’re still stuck on this treatment thing, it’s driving me crazy to see it, you know, because it’s simple. It’s super simple. But it’s just not happening so I’m trying to explain it a little differently before I get into, into the video, ’cause you’re gonna see what I’m talking about and it’s not just like one practice. It’s pretty much, i-it’s kind of generalized.
We’re just falling back into it and we’re just selling treatments. Treatments that are linked to no outcome. It’s like super bizarre, you know, it’s almost like, um, [taps on the desk] it’s just how somebody would sell any product, rather than just selling the product based on features and benefits and trying to sell you on how good the product is, without [background conversations], [inaudible] the customer and figuring out what the need for the product is. What kind of problem the product’s gonna solve, and what their experience is gonna be like, using the product in the future, right? That’s gonna make the product a no-brainer, but it’s just not, i-it’s not happening and I don’t wanna see you guys get to the third 10, ’cause the third 10’s becoming complicated. We’re taking something simple and we’re making it hard.
We’re take [background conversations], [inaudible] should be done relatively quickly and we’re taking a long time and we’re putting all of the pressure on the patient to make the decision and it’s causing more anxiety, because the patient doesn’t know which one they should do [background noise]. So they default, right? Typically, to like, the lower amount because they’re like, “Well, I could do any of these, the doctor’s recommending all of them.” I mean, nine times out of 10, they go with the lesser one.
Sepiashvili: Bart, [inaudible].
Bart: And that’s, that’s trouble, that’s trouble.
Sepiashvili: If, if there is no number attached to the options, they all want to go with the fixed option, they all want to choose stake, they all want [clears throat] the best of cosmetic, they all want the best of everything.
Sepiashvili: The only way that you can really take the focus off, the best, the best, the best, is if you throw some [background noise] approximate roundabout numbers in there and then they start eliminating some choices. Well, they’ll go, “Well, yeah, I do want all of that, but I, I can’t really go financially there.” The problem that I’m encountering is, if I throw out, let’s say, I say, “Your upper fix will cost you around 30, then we are presenting, it’s really 50, but we’re giving it to you for 30.” Like it’s… Uh, or do I throw out 50, because then that’s gonna eliminate majority of them. You know what I mean? Like that’s, that’s the issue I’m having.
Bart: Okay. So, typically when you’re going through, what kind of clinical outcome do you want? What do you want in terms of, as far as function or aesthetics? If there’s a major financial concern, typically, the patients will voice that before the doctor ever gets in the room. They’ll voice it to the treatment coordinator, right? That there is a financial concern, right? Where the treatment coordinators were, all the treatment coordinators [inaudible] down by now, but if they voice a concern, right? Standard protocol is to look at the patient and say, “Listen, based on everything you’re telling me, you’re probably gonna be a candidate for several different types of implant options. Those options give you a little bit different outcome, okay? But, having said that, if money is a huge factor, right? [inaudible] you’re trying to stay within or something, you don’t wanna exceed, tell me what that is, right? What is your budget? What are you looking to stay within here?”
And they’re supposed to have that conversation before the doctor ever gets in. Any time the patient brings it up, right? If the patient tells you, “Hey, I want a ten, ten, ten.” If they don’t bring up money, then we’re not gonna bring up money. Sometimes they’ll bring it up with the doctor. Whenever they bring it up, is, it’s okay. Tha-, it’s okay for us to talk about. I don’t like bringing it up to the patient, if the patient hasn’t brought it up. But, the patient’s gonna bring it up if it’s an issue, okay? [Background noise] They just are. So, when the patient brings it up, it’s a conversation that we can have. And the only thing that, that needs to happen is the patient needs to, to fully understand that, [background conversations] there are different, there are different options.
Yes, clinically, they’re a candidate, yes, we have different options, different budgets, but all of those options have different outcome. And the first thing we have to do is settle on what outcome we want. Then if there is a hard financial barrier, tell me what it is and then we will revisit the conversation with the outcome and say, “Okay, this is what you want, this is what we’re working towards, this is what we can afford at this point in time, okay? So, here’s the best that we can do. The best position I can put you in for this ballpark here, right? You’re[?] as close to this as possible, would be doing it like this. This is what I would do, but without having the conversation, if that comes up in the first 10, I would hope that the, the treatment coordinator has gotten, has gotten a budget and if the patient can’t give a budget and the patient says, ‘Well, I still have a ton of money for it.” Then we need to try to get ’em approved right then, before the second 10 ever happens [background noise] because the patient’s telling you in plain English, “If I can get financed, I’ll do it, if I can’t get financed, I don’t have any money.” Right? So, you run ’em through the financing, if they’re not approved[?] for anything, It’s a triage. [inaudible]…
Payel: I, I have a question though. Because I feel like that’s really, like, not speaking about numbers prior to the doctors, given their recommendation. I feel like that’s bit me in the butt before because I had a console where the patient, of course, she wanted completely permanent. Um, she gave me every single green light that there was, which probably now, thinking about it, should have been a red flag. Um, but when I got Dr. Das in, from surgery, to come talk to the patient, I give her the numbers and she’s like, “I can barely afford my groceries.”
Bart: What do you mean? You gave her the numbers?
Payel: So, once the doctor came in, did his exam and when I gave her, what it was gonna cost for the recommendation that Dr. Das gave her, she couldn’t even afford dentures.
Bart: Yeah, and…
Bart: It’s not that it can’t happen, you know what I mean? It’s just, that’s [background noise], [inaudible] not going to be the rule. The rule for most of the patients, they’re like that. Typically, they start talking money pretty quickly, right? And you ca-, you can, there’s never a hundred percent way.
of pre-qualifying and triaging, but the risk that you run doing it the way I’m telling you, is, is what you experienced. Which is like, this person’s got no money and no credit and they never said anything and you [background noise] wasted some time there. But the [inaudible] that you run [inaudible]…
Leslie Leon: [Foreign Words].
Bart: …Right? Because, if I’m not bringing up money and then you bring up money, [background voice] before I said that it was anything, all of a sudden, you guys are now making the whole consultation about money. When money was never an issue for me, and it can come off presumptuous. We don’t wanna give off the vibe, like, we wanna give off the vibe that the money, [background voice], [inaudible] till you make it an issue, the money is not my concern. I don’t care if it’s five hundred dollars or fifty thousand dollars. What my concern is, is that the treatment plan [background noise], [inaudible] takes you from where you are, to where you wanna be and the treatment plan for 50,000, takes you, from where you are, to where you wanna be.
If those things are true, the money is just the money. That’s, our job is the treatment plan based on, right? Trying to achieve a specific outcome and tha-that’s why I’ve seen a lot of problems come from people trying to over qualify, over the phone and it can turn people off and they can kinda come off the wrong way, um, you know? So, there’s no way to, you know, filter it 100%. But from everything that I’ve seen, all my experience tells me, that the vast majority of the people, like you described, they’ll bring it up before you get to the close. A lot of ’em come in, just because they wanna talk immediately about money. You know what I’m saying? So, um…
Woman 6: So Bart, you know, um, sorry, I don’t mean to cut you off. But the pre-qualifying, I would say that actually, I, 80% of them successfully for me, as soon as I call them, the ones who wanna talk about money, you’re right, they’ll do it right then and there and then right then and there, I’ll prequalify them. So, sometimes, like 80% of the time, when they do come [clearing of throat] in, the 10 time[?] doesn’t even happen. It’s two minutes. The doc-, I go in, [blabbering] the doctor goes in, closed, done, bam! See you later, literally.
Bart: Yeah, you did it right.
Woman 6: [inaudible] qualified…
Bart: You did it right.
Woman 6: …has been like a huge success to me, because, one, they’re trusting me over the phone with their, you know, social[?] what have you or whatever. But, no, most of them will say, “Well, how much is it gonna cost me? What kind of monthly payments?” Well, let me figure out your monthly payments for you. This and this is your concern and this is what you’re looking for.
Bart: You’re doing it the right way because they’re asking you. Right?
Woman 6: You’re right.
Bart: If I call up and I say, “Hey, I’m interested in consultation about [inaudible]” you go, “Okay, just so, you know, [background voice], [inaudible] for starts [inaudible] under $50 for upper and lower.” That’s rude.
Woman 6: You’re assuming that I can’t afford it. How dare you?
Bart: Exactly, it’s rude. That’s why we don’t wanna bring it up because it’s obvious that what you’re trying to do is financially qualify somebody that you don’t know, before you’ve built any relationship or listened to them at all. And that is not what people want in any business, but much less, a health care based business where it all is predicated on trust, right? Once they open that door and they talk about it, well, now we’re just talking about what they want to talk about, you know what I mean? And it’s all about, it’s not about, “Hey, well, I have this at this price and this at this price and this at this price. It’s all about, what… Tell me, don’t tell me what can’t afford, tell me what you can afford, what you can do. How much money can you pay? What kind of budget do you have, right? And we’re trying to figure out if the whole thing hinges on financing or not and if it does, [background voice] then you run[?] ’em. If they’re not approved, you triage and move on. So…
Woman 6: Right.
Bart: …doing it right, I just want all you guys to have it straight, have it straight in your head that, the reason people are coming to us, they’re in a bad spot, they’re suffering. The most important thing, you never want somebody to feel like, “Hey, listen, if you can’t afford it, don’t come in here.” Like, we, I never want ’em to feel like that. There’s a way to triage and prequalify, but in my experience, you run a, a risk of, you know, really comi-, trying to do something the right way, but really coming off the wrong way.
Leslie: Take care, bye bye.
Bart: That make sense guys?
Woman 6: Yes.
Woman 3: Yeah, I have one more question. Uh, I have few patient lately. I don’t know if you guys changed the email, uh, it shows the price on the second email they receive, uh, from Progressive[?]
Woman 6: [inaudible].
Woman 3: So…
Woman 6: [inaudible].
Woman 3: So what happened, uh, when, when I called the patient, uh, and I’m trying to schedule the consultation with them, they’re like, “Oh no, I cannot afford 32,000. [background voice] It’s not something I’m looking into it. [background voice]
Bart: I’m sorry, I’m trying to get everybody muted here [inaudible] so hard to hear you all. One second. [background voice] Okay, I think I got it. Um, okay, so, so they, they saw the email, right? And they’re like, “Oh, I don’t know, that’s too much.”
Woman 3: Yes.
Bart: Okay. Well, let’s look at, let’s look at your email ’cause the whole point of the email’s to show them that you have different, different ways of doing the implants at different prices, right? Tiered, tiered pricing, um, is the point. But, you know…
Woman 3: And I was so surprised because usually, uh, you know, we don’t put the prices because its based on what the patient wants. But of course, the, like, we mentioned before, person wants the most expensive and the
best option for them and they look into the price and they’re like, I told you and mentioned to you before that, we have 25,000 around our neighborhood and we are 32. So, when they see that right away, they click and I have…
Woman 3: …no way to… Yeah.
Bart: That can’t be the only price there. You’ve gotta have something under 32, that’s fixed.
Woman 3: Um, unfortunately, not, and, uh, that’s why I asked, uh, our, our representative from Progressive Stephanie, to talk to my doctor. What are we gonna do about that.
Bart: [Inaudible] your doctor. That’s, you know, how are you supposed to compete? Right? You guys have, you have [background noise], [inaudible] different ways to give people the best they can, the best that they can get, right? For, for something that they can afford? So if you only have one full arch option and your option has to be, or, or, um, is say, 15% or 20% higher than everybody else’s for the same option and you don’t have some type of scaled into fixed option, right? Like a, like a, um, a printed prosthetic or a milling PMMA, if you don’t have anything…
Woman 3: No.
Bart: …[inaudible] that’s still fixed, you know, then that’s, then you’re at a s-s-serious disadvantage from a sale perspective.
Woman 3: I, I am, because this is my first time that I’m not succeeding the way I would like to and, uh, I’m only able actually, scheduled the cases from the previous patient, which we had in the office. I pull like nine, 10 cases, but with this price, but when it comes to the general population, I am stuck.
Bart: Yeah, we need to be able to say, “Hey we’ve got full arch options that are fixed. It’s not like we have one way to do it, but we’ve got full arch fixed, we got some that are in the 30s, we got some that are in the 20s or some that are, maybe are just under 20, that are all on four options. It really just kind of depends on where your budget is and what you want, as far as a clinical outcome. Like, you have to be able to say something like that, to even stay in conversation. If you only have one option at one price…
Brandy Arbuthnot: [Inaudible]
Bart: …both the practices that my cu-…
Brandy: A lot of people don’t wanna…
Bart: …[inaudible] to kill in second opinions, right? That’s the whole point. It is telling the, the patients that, all on four isn’t done one way with one price. That’s your whole, like, that’s who you crush in second opinions, are practices that only give the patient one option. You know what I mean? So, that’s, we can have a, a, a side conversation about it and let’s just get on the phone with the doctor and see what we can do, um, you know, because the, the clinical workflow, the surgical workflow, it’s exactly the same. You’re just using a different material that has to have a different expectation set. But it will…
Woman 3: Yeah, I would like this, uh, conversation with my doctor.
Woman 3: And you know, if you can mention that, because I’m struggling with it and doesn’t look like going nowhere. And the consultation also does not follow the 10-10-10. Doctor repeats everything for the patient. It’s, uh, it’s like, not much helpful on that side.
Bart: [Inaudible] the doctor to a power session and get the doctor to a boot camp.
Woman 3: [Laughs]
Bart: Let’s get [inaudible] because, what, what, what, what are we doing? You know what I mean? Like, you guys have to do it as a team, you gotta do it as a team or what are we doing, right? You, I mean, I’ll take the money if you wanna donate it. But, like, i-i-if you want, if you guys want all this stuff to work, it’s, it’s as simple of a concept as I can possibly make it. But everybody has to understand what it is that we’re trying to do. You gotta understand what it’s gonna take to compete in this market place. The prices of all on four are not going up. They’re not, right?
There’s more providers now, than there was a year ago. There’s more providers now, than there was five years ago. Exponentially more, it’s supply and demand. There’s more people doing it. The technology has lowered lab fees, right? Which has increased doctor margins, which has led doctors to lower their fees and maintain a margin they’re comfortable with. The prices are not going up, they’re coming down. If you have a price in the only thing you got, is 32 or 33 or 34, then you’re gonna be boutique forever and your business is largely going to be dependent on the reputation of the doctor, word-of-mouth referrals and being plugged into certain circles and referral networks from doctors. That’s gonna be the business, but direct to public, where we don’t have any trust, their unqualified, unattached leads, right? And they’re trying to decide which practices are going, they’re gonna go to, you’re gonna get eaten alive and even more so, with the…
Woman 3: And I am.
Woman 3: I lost many, many patients, which I follow up and they said, “Oh, I found 25. They do exactly what you did and I’m going there.”
Bart: 25 Grand, you know. The question with the doctor’s what… If we lose a case in all on four, for 25,000, what are we doing in place of that 25,000 to earn more profit and more production per hour? What are you gonna replace it with? A crown at full fee? Even if you do a crown for $6,000, it’s not even close, right? To production per hour, it’s not even close. So, there’s nothing else that you can replace it with, but I don’t wanna get off too much on, on, on a tangent there. We’ll take, we’ll take that offline and fix it and if anyone else is having that problem, you need to voice it because where things are going, just with interest rates and the whole world of financing, you have to expect that over the course of this year and 2024, that you’re going to have less approvals, higher interest rates, um, than, than, than we’re accustomed to. Not more, not more, you know? So, well, we just need to understand that.
Okay, I’m gonna play a little part of this video for you guys. Hold on one second. And this is, I’m just going to play, like, the second 10 of this. Okay? Turn your volume up. It’s a little hard to hear for you when the doctor starts speaking, but, I’ll pause it and let you know.
Dr. Hogan: Hey, how’re you doing?
Hayley: Hayley [inaudible]
Hayley’s dad: [Inaudible]
Bart: Uh, just a quick background, uh, the patient is, obviously, um, the lady. This gentleman is her father. Okay? So, she’s in dentures. I mean, I, she ain’t even wearing dentures. You can see she’s got no teeth basically [laughs] right now. So, he’s there basically from a financial point of view. He told her, like, she can’t afford anything, but that’s why he’s there. Okay? Um, she was told she’s not a candidate, by other doctors, they can’t do implants. So she’s like a Zygo case.
Hayley: We’re good.
Dr. Hogan: How’re you?
Hayley’s dad: I’m doing alright
Dr. Hogan: [Inaudible]
Hayley’s Dad: [Inaudible]
Dr. Hogan: [Inaudible] second opinion[?] huh?
Hayley: I just, I’m…
Man; We’re just really [inaudible]
Hayley: Yeah, I just need somebody to be the [inaudible], [laughter]
Dr. Hogan: Okay. Tell me about yourself Hayley.
Hayley: Okay, well, um…
Dr. Hogan: How long have you been like this?
Bart: All right, right off the bat, waste of time. You know, the doctor should have already known that. From the first 10, right? It wasn’t in like, 10 minutes. It was, you know, I mean, there was more conversation, the, the first 10 was already done. So, he should already know, is, we don’t have to say, “tell me about yourself” and start all the way back from the beginning. Otherwise, let’s just bring the patient straight in to the doctor immediately, okay?
Hayley: [Background noise], [inaudible] two years, I don’t even have the bottom dentures. I have [inaudible]. Um, [inaudible] nobody sees that I don’t have any down[?] teeth. Um, I, they just, they just have never been [inaudible], I’ve gotten [inaudible] they just never, never worked and [background voice], [inaudible] to look like I have something in there[?]. But, as time has gone past, I’m starting to notice, like, [inaudible]. Um, but basically, I got, I had to have [inaudible] extracted, my top and bottom teeth, you know, um, in two different places and then had me, basically come back to, the plan was to get implants for my bottom because it costs, you know, did, we weren’t gonna[?] do it on both. But when I came back to have that part done, he, he informed that I was a candidate for, um, implants and he didn’t, he couldn’t perform surgery. So I’m stuck with what…
Hayley’s Dad: So [inaudible] pulled all her teeth.
Dr. Hogan: Mm-hmm, I presume, they might [inaudible], [Background noise]
Hayley: I mean, honestly I’m sure that some of them [inaudible] but I feel like, anyway…
Hayley’s Dad: [inaudible] kind of work and then things like that…
Hayley. We should have gotten [inaudible]
Hayley’s Dad: We shouldn’t have missed[?] but should have gotten. She went out all by herself and she didn’t have somebody to balance[?] information off of and that type of thing. [Background noise] We should have [inaudible], [background noise] but, um, anyway, so I guess [inaudible].
Hayley: I mean,[inaudible]
Hayley’s Dad: [Background noise] Yeah, [inaudible] and… [Background noise]
Hayley; I just had a bad experience, honestly, I mean, really I don’t want [inaudible]. Like they say, “Don’t talk about your pregnancy prior[?] to your new employer,” but, I mean I have been, [Background noise] I’ve been through a lot, I mean, a lot. And a whole lot of just…
Bart: So, here’s the thing…
Bart; Oh, sorry. Here’s the thing, this lady’s got maximum emergency, right? But what happens is that the patient’s just always talking about the pain points, the pain points, the pain points. Sooner or later, what you’re trying to do is gauge, okay, what is their level of urgency? Am I dealing with somebody that’s complacent? That I need to really dig here? Or is their pain and their, their, their deterioration and their quality of life, is it obvious?
To me, it like, it’s glaring. Okay? So, as we have that, we have to, sooner or later, we have to get to what is the ideal outcome that you want? Because they can’t think that far ahead ’cause it’s so bad for ’em right now, in their head, anything is better than where I’m at. They’re not specific [Background voice], [inaudible] though. And, and, that, that poses a problem when it comes to treatment planning cuz you’re dealing with somebody, that just hopes you can help them, in any way possible. Can you help me? That’s it, right? But we have to be much more specific, in terms of creating a vision for them, in terms of what is ideal for them. Right? Are we gonna help you? Yes, we’re gonna help you. The question is, which route, right? Are we going to take? And that depends on how you want to look, feel and function. So let’s talk about that, right? ‘Cause that’s the most important thing for us to see eye-to-eye on here and we have to get there, we gotta get there much, much faster.
Hayley’s Dad: [Inaudible] …and stuff like that so it’s [inaudible]
Hayley: I’m the only person that likes to have to wear a mask. [Laughter]
Dr. Hogan: I’ve been hearing a lot about that. [laughter] In fact, I said[?] that on the radio [inaudible] a lot of people are still wearing their masks because of their teeth.
Hayley’s Dad: Okay
Dr. Hogan: So, Hayley, we can do [Background noise], [inaudible]
Hayley’s Dad: Okay.
Dr. Hogan: [inaudible]
Hayley: [inaudible] because I’ve been walking around, [inaudible], [crying]
Hayley’s Dad: We’re gonna, we’re gonna [inaudible]
Hayley: It’s [inaudible]
Hayley’s Dad: [Inaudible]
Bart: He said, “We’re gonna obviously finance her.” Uh, the doctor said, “Yeah, we’re gonna be able to do implants. We’re gonna be able to help you.” He knows she’s zygomatic and that, that’s when she kind of broke down, crying. Okay? So, money in this, it had already come up in the first 10. The problem is, with the first 10. Again, it’s, if money is an issue, it doesn’t matter to me, but I can’t speculate on what that is. I need to know from the patient what they mean by that. What do you mean by money is an issue? Right? What dollar amount are you trying to stay within? Tell me what you can do.
You never wanna give… If somebody says money’s an issue, I don’t wanna give him three options ’cause I don’t know if any of those options are gonna work. It’s much more efficient for me to just ask them, what can you do? And then if the dollar amount is super low, right? Then you immediately ask ’em, right? “Would it help if we could take, you know, if we could utilize some financing and we could take the dollar amount and spread it out over years and give you a little mo-, affordable monthly payment. You wouldn’t have to come out of your pocket so much. Would that help?” “Yes.” And then we try and get them approved.
But at least you know, how much cash they have and then you’re gonna know if they’re, if they’re able to get financed. Right? Before we get into it ’cause now we can be really specific with what’s the, you know, here’s the situation’s, you know, they got approved for 40 Grand or they got approved for 15 and they’ve got 10 or 5,000 in cash, or whatever. We just need to know what they can do and what type of outcome they want. Then we can recalibrate, based on what they can do. I can recalibrate the clinical outcome and set, reset the expectation.
Hayley’s Dad: Uh, can’t say[?] [inaudible]
Bart: But like this doctor, theoretically, this doctor, should already know what their budget is. And if they were approved for financing or not or already. So he knows where they are, he knows what they want, he knows what their budget is. He knows how much they’re approved for in financing and he can do the treatment plan. He has all of the variables, right? The problem is, we’re not getting all the variables to solve the problem here. So we’re doing a bunch of hypotheticals and then just putting all of the onus on the patient to pick. It’s the longest, most confusing way to possibly arrange the dialogue between you guys and a patient.
Dr. Hogan: …is that [inaudible]
Dr. Hogan: [inaudible] the process?
Assistant: Yes, I will [inaudible]
Dr. Hogan: [Inaudible] it’s just [inaudible]
Hayley: Yeah. Thank you.
Dr. Hogan: All good[?]
Hayley’s Dad: Thank you.
Dr. Hogan: [inaudible] before I [inaudible]
Assistant: Um, nothi-, are you, what medications are you on? Nothing which is not [inaudible]
Hayley: [Inaudible] Um, what father[?] says…
Assistant: Just [inaudible] uh…
Hayley: 85 [inaudible]
Dr. Hogan: [Inaudible]
Hayley: Um, [inaudible] and Atarax [inaudible]
Dr. Hogan: [Inaudible] okay?
Dr. Hogan: Well,…
Hayley’s Dad: So, what will we do, what would you do, the [inaudible] first, and then [inaudible]
Bart: Did you see what happened right there? So, the doctor was basically dunce. Doctor look at, looked at the, the CT scan, said, “You’re a candidate, we’re going to be able to help you don’t worry.” but we didn’t get, we didn’t get any more specific than that. So, the doctor’s about to leave, her father is trying to figure out, okay, so what do we do? He’s trying to figure out, okay, so w-, how exactly? Like, do we start here? Do we do the whole thing? Like, what do we do? And what we do, depends on what they want, which has not been defined. You guys see where the, the issue is here? It’s like glaring. I hope it’s like, super obvious for everybody ’cause thi-this is like, happening with everybody right now. We’re all, like, we’re having a conversation in the first 10, is that translating to the doctor? And then, and then you, you’re, you’re way behind the eight ball, at the close. Way behind, right?
Doctor, the doctor, if you guys give ’em the information, give the doctor the information that they should get, right? Before they start their part, they’re gonna be able to be unbelievably efficient and compelling and enthusiastic with the recommendations, kind of make the recommendation sound ridiculously simple too, to them. They’re not gonna have to give five options, you know or three options or whatever. You’re guaranteeing, almost, that you’re not gonna get a close, right? Plus, we’re letting the patient treatment plan themself. Which creates a litany of problems in and of itself.
The patient’s job is not to decide the treatment plan, the patient’s job isn’t to tell us where the treatment plan’s going to be, the patient job isn’t even to tell us what treatment plan they want. The patient’s job is to tell us, what they want in terms of look, feel, function. Our job is to tell the patient the treatment plan that’s gonna get them those things. With absolute certainty and a lot of confidence and enthusiasm and then to them, there’s nothing to think about. It’s just like, it’s easy. There’s no, there, there is much less stress, much less anxiety.
And while we’re having that conversation, if money comes up, we’re going to immediately qualify and let ’em know that there are options, right? But give me an idea of what you can pay. Give me an idea of what you have budgeted for this, right? Is, are we talking cash? Are we talking financing? recor-, talking the combination of the two? Give me an idea and I can cater the treatment plan, right? To help your daughter, and also make it affordable financially for you, which I’m sure is the goal. Like, that’s the conversation. It’s a very, very simple conversation, right? But if it’s not had, it’s like a disaster. [laughs] You know what I mean? Because the they have way too many things to think about. It’s like overload for them and they don’t wanna think about anything, they just want you to tell ’em what to do.
If I gave my doctors five different proposals, in terms of how to grow their practice, they would never sign. They would analyze it to death. They would have paralysis by analysis, right? And it would extend the life of our sale-cycle by a factor of five, if I did it that way, right? They just wanna feel like, I know how to get them from here to here and they wanna believe it. If they believe it, [snaps fingers] okay, makes sense, alright, let’s do it. They’re done. But, three proposals, five proposals, never done it. Me personally, I’ve never given them different ways to do it, right? Never. I’ll show you what happens here.
Hayley’s Dad: [inaudible] that’s a lot…
Dr. Hogan: Okay.
Hayley’s Dad: [inaudible]
Dr. Hogan: Um, the other one is [inaudible] and I, will do a few dentures [inaudible]
Hayley’s Dad: Yeah, uh, we understand.
Hayley: [inaudible] oh my God.
Dr. Hogan: [Inaudible] young woman [inaudible]
Bart: Even the guy’s like, “Yeah, ’cause doing the upper and lower both zirconia, you know, that’s a lot of money, that’s a lot of money.” The guy didn’t say, “I don’t have it,” right? And we haven’t asked for a specific number yet, right? And, and her dad is there to make sure that she gets help, um, but it would be really nice if Dr. Hogan knew what, what they were pre-approved for, right? And what his level of expectation, or his willingness to contribute to, to, to her care. Like, what, at what level, what, whe-where are we at here? If he had some specifics based around that, then he could give them a very specific treatment plan. But since there’s obviously a financial concern, but it’s not well defined, nor is the outcome well defined, well, now we’re just gonna give different scenarios, right? And ask the patient what they want to do.
Um, it’s obviously something that, it’s something that everybo-, I want everybody to really, really, really work on this. And, and I don’t want to hear, uh, people blaming the doctor, right? I don’t want to hear people blaming the doctor, because you can’t blame the doc-, if the doctor’s not prepared, that’s not the doctor’s fault, right? If the doctor doesn’t know where they are and what they want, if they don’t know what the outcome is, that’s not the doctors fault. If money came up in the first 10 and the doctor doesn’t already know that before, they walk in the, in the door, that’s not the doctor’s fault, right?
I hear a lot of, “Hey, the doctor’s talking too much,” or this or that, but the doctor isn’t prepared. The only reason you guys see the patient before the doctor, right? Is to prequalify and triage and get the information, because you guys… They need to be doing the surgeries, right? Your job is to sell. Close patients, build the rapport and limit their involvement there. In order to limit their involvement, they have to be prepped correctly, but if you don’t have the right data to prep them with [background voice] and now, we as a the treatment coordinators, we’re putting them in a position where we’re telling ’em, “Hey, you have to do my part and your part.
Amie: So, we closed this case and did her surgery today.
Bart: Awesome. Awesome. You would have closed it day one.
Amie: It was closed day one. We closed it day one and got her in within a week for surgery.
Bart: What did they pick? ‘Cause we gave ’em several options and what I’m telling you and, and listen, there’s people that come in, right? If you have somebody who comes in with no teeth crying, and with their father that’s going to pay, it’s not like a celebration to say, “We closed them.” Those are what you call laydowns. What I’m referring to, is a straight line to go from A to B, a straight line, right? Not, not, not going around. You, you don’t wanna be inefficient and you don’t wanna miss opportunities, right? You’re gonna miss opportunities with people, if they bring up money and we don’t jump on and have the conversation, you’re gonna miss opportunities. If the doctor is not well prepped on the, on where they are and w-what they want as a clinical outcome, doctor’s not gonna be able to treatment plan and give ’em one idea, one treatment plan, one thing to do. And if they can’t give ’em one thing to do, then what you do, is present options and allow them to pick. Which completely relies on the urgency of that particular patient on that particular day.
You had an advantage ’cause she had a father there and they picked one. You know what I’m saying? But ideally, like, you are going to have… I can’t even tell you how much easier it’s gonna be for you. If you walk out of the second 10 and Dr. Hogan said, “Hey, based on where you are and what you want, here’s how I would do the treatment. This is gonna give you, boom, boom, boom. I think you’re a perfect candidate. I’m really excited about the case and we’re gonna put all these other stuff behind you, right? This is what we’re gonna do.
If you had that type of surgery with one treatment plan and you didn’t have to kinda navigate through, okay, there’s finances involved. Okay, well, we’ll do this on the top and this on the bottom, you know, your, you, you have to problem, solve big problems with the patient, at the same time. Your, your odds of closing the case, are just significantly lower and your odds of closing the case on something and having a, [smacks lips] having the wrong expectation set with the patient or extremely high, right? So, regardless of the outcome, you can do the wrong thing and have the right outcome. Right?
What you wanna do, is have, do the right thing and you’re gonna see your outcome start to become very very, very consistent. And you wanna put yourself in a position where we’re not given the patient, well, I’m not making the patient decide, right? We’re telling the patient, “This is the treatment plan for you,” right? Based on everything that you want. “Oh, there’s the finance issue? Okay, well let’s talk finances. What can you afford?” Boom, boom, boom, okay? So that’s gonna change the treatment plan, then you change the expectation and then you go with a secondary close. But to go with a primary, secondary and a third option, immediately, is not consultative selling. Its not how you sell high-end products or services. That’s how you sell a product, right? Or a product line. Well, we could do this for this and this for this, and this for this, right? It’s like a catalog type of a sale, um, and that’s gonna just put you guys at a disadvantage.
So, the big takeaway is guys, from this call, I want you to work on, is number one, the, the first 10, if you don’t get anything else done. Where are they now? What’s the pain point where do they want to be? Right? Where do they wanna be? And you have that outcome, that clinical outcome is well defined for the doctor and you take at least a minute, prep the doctor on it before they walk in. In the second 10, what we’re gonna work towards, is making sure they leave with one treatment plan. Just one treatment plan to close on, that’s it. If those things aren’t happening, it’s okay. But we wanna schedule a meeting with the doctor and, and, and start to go through it.
If the doctor’s not on the same page with the strategy, get the doctor to one of the power sessions, get me online with the doctor, bring to a boot camp, get the doctor more involved, right? Because everyone has to be involved with the, with the philosophy. You know what I mean? You have to be involved that, everyone has to agree, that it’s not the patient’s idea to determine treatment. You have to agree on that. It’s just not their place, you know what I mean? That’s not what they do. They’re not a dentist. You know, that’s not their job. Their job is, I’m here, this is where I wanna be and how I want to look and how I want to feel, that’s their job. The other part is completely your job. We have to agree on that philosophy.
We have to agree on the philosophy that if someone has a financial issue, that we’re not gonna give six different options, six different prices, we’re gonna ask them what they can do. Like, if you and the doctor are on the same page with these big, um, with these big anchor points, right? In the foundation of the sales process, then everything’s going to be fine. If you’re not on the same page, there’s gonna be like a host of miscommunication and you’re gonna take what was built and created, to make it more efficient and increase your closing percentage and you’re gonna utilize it in a manner that’s gonna take longer and create more confusion. Makes sense?
So, I want you gu-, I don’t want you guys to, like, sweep it under the rug. If you’re not getting one treatment plan at the end of the day of the third, bring it up and let’s fix it. If you can’t fix it on your own, bring the doctor here, get on a conference call, whatever you guys need, let’s get everyone on the same page. It’s really tough to like go through, you know, video and it’s like, where do I start? They’re not doing it. You know what I mean? Like they’re not doing the process. Like, where do I start? Wi-wi-with a, with a critique. So, let’s get everybody on the same page and be aggressive here. Be aggressive here, guys, and, and communicate with the doctors, make sure they’re well prepared. And if you don’t get the outcome that you’re, that you’re looking for, don’t just let it go and say, “Oh, that’s the way it is.” No, [chuckles] schedule a meeting, talk it through, you know, get on the same page .
The doctors believe me there’s not one doctor that tells me they wanna spend more time in a consultation. There’s not one. There’s not one doctor that says, “We’d like to close at a lower percentage.” So, yo-you, the doctor, me, we all want the same exact thing here, right? But I wanna make sure you guys and the doctors are on the same page and you have one treatment plan to close. Cool? Sound good, sound good? All right, make sure you guys take a look at the, um, at the power session schedule and get that on the schedule. Get your doctors involved and then for those you gotta, that, uh, are gonna be in Vegas, I’ll see you there. I’m flying out tomorrow. Cool? [Background voice]. Alright guys. Okay, take it easy. Catch you later.