The Closing Institute - Full Arch Sales Critique

August, 2023

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Bart: For sure, the real estate agents and the mortgage brokers are saying that [laugh]. For sure. What kind of interest rates are you seeing, Tracy?

Tracy: A lot of 18%, 24%.

Bart: Mm-hm.

Male Speaker: [inaudible]

Tracy: Thank you. It has a lot of people going home to discuss with their spouse and then not returning my calls.

Bart: Yeah. Make sure that you just… Make sure you ask ’em what interest rate they expected, right? As far as a non, non-secured loan and try to just knock down the, take the, uh, the strategy to knock down the interest rate by reducing the principle.

Tracy: Yeah.

Bart: Do you know what I mean?

Tracy: Yeah.

Bart: So if you’re normally gonna sell an arch for 23,000, right? You might start, given the fact that the interest rates, you know they’re not gonna go down ’til the fed cuts interest rates, which is not gonna happen in probably Q2 of next year, I’m guessing. So a good strategy to counteract it if it’s more interest rate than principal is, let’s say you normally are selling an arch for 23,000…

Tracy: Yeah.

Bart: You increase the price of that arch to 25, right? And you know that you have a built-in 10% buffer when you get an insurance objection. Just knock the principal down 10% and tell ’em you’re gonna take 10% and pay it for ’em right now by reducing the principal, thus taking 18% down to 8%. Does that make sense?

Tracy: Yes.

Bart: But before you make that offer, it’s important for them to tell you what kind of interest rate would work, right? So you walk ’em through and your goal is to get a number out of them that’s within a 10% variance. So if you can get them to say, listen, I would do 8% or I would do 9%, or I would do 10%. If you can lower it and take 10% off of the, uh, off of the principal, if it would lower it to that eight to 10% range, then you should have ’em. But you just have to box ’em in there. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: Trying[?]

Bart: It depends on what if they’re, you know if they’re real objection really is the interest rate and it’s not the principal, okay, fine. Increase the principal so that you can take it off. Thus, in their eyes, lowering the interest rate. ‘Cause it’s all just money. That’s all it is. It’s just a money objection. Same, same thing as them saying, “Hey, it’s too expensive,” but everybody has to get ready for it because you’re not, you guys aren’t gonna see interest rates go down. Just like, I mean, nobody’s gonna see interest rates go down until they cut interest rates, you know? And, and that’s just not gonna happen until probably March or, or April, or May of next year. So just build it in, build it in. You start a little bit higher so you can take it off and lower the interest rate and get ’em closed, but they still have to give you the interest rate that would work.

If you can get that out of ’em, then you can close ’em right then. You can close ’em right then. You take it off the principal, get ’em signed and hey, if you guys have another, if there’s another secondary financing option the patient can go with to reduce it even more, then cool, do it. There’s no prepayment penalty, but I can make it easy for you so you don’t have to submit a bunch of documents, make a bunch of appointments, and go jump through all these hoops. I’ll just take it and just pay 10% of it for you. Here you go. Boom. Now it’s effectively at an 8%. Make sense?

Tracy: Mm.

Bart: So everybody keep that in mind, um, because you’re not gonna see the interest rates drop. So if you find that interest rates are a bigger problem than the principal, then increase the principal. Give yourself a 10% buffer room there. And when you get the objection on the interest rate, ask ’em what they thought or what interest rate do they think would be reasonable for ’em, given that it’s unsecured. Talk ’em through that. As soon as you get a number, then reach the number with the 10% buffer that you added into the principal. And I think you’re gonna find that will work really, really well here. Make sense?

Okay, cool. Um, we’ve got a really good call to go through today. It’s actually, um, whoa. Hold on one second. I dunno why it’s seeing that. There we go. Um, it’s actually a lot of good stuff in the first 10 seconds in the third. We’re not gonna have time to go through it all. So I’m gonna kind of break this up into two parts. Um, one on this call and then one on the on, on the peer mentorship call. Okay? So we’re gonna go through, uh, the most important parts of the first and the second 10, and then we’re gonna go through the close on the, uh, on the peer mentorship call. Uh, it’s a little long, but you guys are gonna learn a lot out of this. This is from Dr. Stuparich’s office, Treatment Coordinator Ellie. They did really, really well here. Uh, Ellie, are you on the call? Is Ellie on here?

Lexi: I know they were having some tech. Tech…

Bart: Okay. Okay. I just wanna know if I, if I’m going in full tilt on Ellie or if I’m being sweet, I didn’t know, but they’re gonna sign on. I’m just gonna go. I’m gonna, I’m gonna be sweet. But the reality is they did really, really well. This is a very good, um, very good patient to look at because it’s, I think it was at two consultations before them. He said he had another one after them. Um, and he had a lot of good, really good questions and he was definitely serious. So I’m gonna go through here and start the video. Remember guys, any questions you have, just type ’em into the chat and then, um, and then I’ll get to ’em. Okay, here we go. Go ahead and turn your volume up. Although the audio’s, audio’s pretty good here. Go ahead and turn the volume up on your computers.

Ellie: Pain symptoms, frustrations, anything you’re not happy with now? First things first, welcome to our practice.

Jim: Thank you very much.

Ellie: Thank you for coming out.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Ellie: Um, I, like I said, my name is Ellie.

Jim: Mm-hm.

Ellie: I’m the treatment coordinator here.

Jim: Mm-hm.

Ellie: Basically, my job here is to help come up with treatment plans, uh, based off what your wants and needs are. Okay?

Jim: Okay.

Ellie: Um, in order for me to do that, I need to be aware of two things.

Bart: One quick observation, guys, if you walk into the room, they’re already sitting down, you walk straight up to ’em, introduce yourself, shake their hand, look ’em in the eye. Act excited to meet ’em. Take that, take that first five to 10 seconds, and take your time. Take your time, make a connection. Shake their hand, you know, um, sometimes they’ll get up, sometimes they won’t. But either way, make sure you, you, when you walk in, you stop in front of ’em, don’t talk to ’em while you’re walking around the, uh, around the table. Stop, shake their hand, introduce yourself.

Ellie: I know exactly what’s going on right now. Any pain symptoms, frustrations, anything you’re not happy with now. And you need to know what your goals are at the end of treatment. Um, basically how you want your smile to feel and function and look. Uh, life you wanna lead after treatment. Okay?

Jim: Okay.

Ellie: Okay, great.

Jim: Um, um. I’m here to investigate whether or not this practice thinks I need dental implants.

Ellie: Right.

Jim: All-on-4. All-on-6 are individual.

Ellie: Mm-hm.

Jim: As I’ve been told by others, varying degrees. Uh, I’d like, I have a weakening bite.

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: And because some teeth are loose, some teeth are dying.

Ellie: Right? I did get your, uh, the information from the, the office [crosstalk]

Jim: And I have perio…tinnitus just is not going away.

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: Since that report, I have had a good quad scaling. My gums have tightened up.

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: But I think it’s time for action.

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: And, um, what I’d like to have by the end of this is my bite back and some assurance that with proper maintenance, I have another good 20 years.

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: Since left untreated, I don’t think I have 20 years.

Ellie: Right.

Jim: It, it’s just a question of what to do. Is it individual?

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: Or is it All-on-4, All-on-6?

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: To that end, it becomes what’s the cost of procedure for what’s recommended, what’s the schedule, what can be done? And, um, what materials are used and the reliability of the oral surgeon, prosthodontist, laboratory, you know, that makes this stuff, and what materials. So that kind of stuff.

Ellie: Yeah. Absolutely. Uh, it sounds like you’ve done your research.

Jim: Yeah. A little bit.

Ellie: Uh-huh. [laughter] I know you’ve gone through a couple of different places. I know the scan that we got the, uh, the FX from… recent, from June, so earlier this month, right?

Jim: Yes. Yeah.

Ellie: And you’ve kind of gone all over the place, huh? New Zealand… [laugh]

Jim: Well, here’s the funny thing. I live in New Zealand for about half the year.

Ellie: Oh, okay.

Jim: And the other half is optional, but it’s usually in Massachusetts.

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: So my goal really is to get what I think it’s going to be some sort of implant procedure done…

Ellie: Before you go back.

Jim: So that I, when I leave in September, I at least have good solid temps. Uh.

Bart: Ellie, really good drill-down question right there. Anytime it’s a, it’s a snowbird or somebody that’s living half the year here, half the year there, whatever, then you know that you’re gonna have built-in urgency with a timeframe for them to get it done. So that’s a very good observation. When someone says they have another house somewhere, you, you, you touch on it to figure out how long they’re going to be here for. And you guys keep that in the back of your mind as far as scheduling, that you know, that’s a built-in urgency. If he’s here, then that means he wants to get it done before he leaves. I just need to know when he’s gonna leave. If he was gonna do it over there, then he wouldn’t be here right now. So there is a, a built-in sense of urgency. So that’s a very good observation.

Jim: And when I come back in March or April in the final [inaudible][crosstalk].

Ellie: Okay. All right, so you leave in September?

Jim: Yeah.

Ellie: And you spend half the year there?

Jim: Yeah.

Ellie: Okay. All right. And then… So obviously you’ve been to a school of consult, I assume?

Jim: Yeah.

Ellie: How many have you been to?

Jim: Two.

Ellie: And what did they mention? Like, obviously, you said that all on [crosstalk][inaudible]

Jim: Um. The first mentioned All-on-6, upper, lower.

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: Titanium, zirconium, and, uh, for an exorbitant fee. The second was ClearChoice.

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: I guess everybody’s stops by ClearChoice.

Ellie: Yeah.

Jim: Um, and then here and then one this afternoon.

Ellie: Oh, so you have another one this afternoon?

Jim: Yeah, yeah.

Ellie: Okay. And is there a reason you didn’t move forward with the other two practices?

Jim: Yeah, I got to learn.

Ellie: Okay. So what did they pull you? Obviously [crosstalk]

Jim: That’s my… You stick to your plan and I’ll, yeah…

Ellie: Okay. I only ask because obviously you didn’t move forward with them and you did mention the first one had an exorbitant[crosstalk].

Jim: Because I’m not done with research.

Ellie: Okay. So you, you just feel that you haven’t like, gotten all the information you needed to move forward?

Jim: Correct.

Ellie: Okay. Okay. Um, are you experiencing any pain right now?

Jim: No.

Ellie: No. Um, you said you had, your gums had tightened up, but I know on the paperwork that you put down.

Bart: Okay. So the reason why I didn’t give her a number right there is just because she hasn’t built up enough trust with him to get that information. That’s the, that’s the only reason. Kind of the whole thing kind of happened fast. So Ellie came in and stated her intention, right? She did a good job, stated her intention, said, “I need to know where you are now and where you want to be.” And then what happened is he kind of took over and he gave her a very, very short, very brief synopsis of where he is right now, what he wants by the end of it. But he’s like really getting to the point super fast, you know what I mean? He’s getting to the point super fast. We kind of went past it. So make sure, like when, when you guys state your intention, right? And you say, “I need to know where you are now and where you want to be,” right? Does that make sense?

And then you gotta grab control over it before they start answering so that you can direct ’em. Right? Okay. So let’s do this, let’s start here. So gimme a good idea of where you are, how you’re feeling, and everything that’s going on. Just kind of gimme a good overview on any, any frustration symptoms, just everything negative in regards to your smile and your teeth, your frustrations, when in terms of what you don’t like. Are you in any pain? Are you experiencing loose teeth, periodontal disease? Just kind of give me a good solid overview of where you are now. Okay. Let’s start there and guide the patient so that they know exactly how to answer it. Right? And you can kind of keep ’em on track. That way if they’re not giving you the full story. Right? Which he’s giving you a very, um, he, he’s kind of giving you an analytical, analytical answers. They’re just very matter-of-fact, but there’s no emotion attached to it right now. Right? It’s hard to build the emotion if he just goes on a run and tries to give you the entire thing in, in 20 seconds.

So make sure after you state the intention, then, then you guys need to pace and lead, um, so that they know how to answer you and what to answer. And then you can stop there. If he says, yeah, well I’m dealing with function issues, I’m missing some teeth, you know, and you know, it’s getting difficult to eat and things like that, then you can slow down a little bit. Okay. So And how long has that been going on? It’s been going on for this long. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, so how has, how has that been affecting your life on a day-to-day basis? I mean, I can imagine it’s quite an adjustment to go through to be able to eat anything you want and then kind of slowly lose it over time. Right? Gi-gimme an idea and, and just kind of get ’em talking about how it affects ’em. And again, things like that. That’s how you guys are gonna get into rapport and build trust and, um, this guy’s very matter-of-fact, very to the point because he’s already been to several consultations, but it doesn’t mean that we don’t, that it’s not really important to build a connection with him. Really important to build a connection. He just needs to know where, where you’re going with it.

Ellie: Uh, you have some mobility in the teeth. Is it just the back teeth that are mobile? Is it all the teeth? Can you just fill me in on that?

Jim: Of course, it’s varying degrees, isn’t it?

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: And some are quite loose, some are just a little loose.

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: But the long-term prognosis is more weakening. It’s probably periodontal disease.

Ellie: Mm-hm.

Jim: Then I can stop it for a while, but then it kind, kind of comes back.

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: Yeah.

Ellie: And then how long has that been going on for?

Jim: Oh, 10, 10 years.

Ellie: Okay. So it, it’s been going on for quite a while.

Jim: Yeah. And you can see I’ve lost some teeth already. I’ve had a few extracted.

Ellie: Okay. How many are you missing?

Jim: [mumbling] Mm. I dunno.

Ellie: Is it just like on the [crosstalk]

Jim: [mumbling] Four?

Ellie: Like on the bottom? [crosstalk]

Bart: Start counting.

Jim: Actually.

Bart: Here we go. Ends of the mouth.

Jim: I have one missing because I was gonna have an implant there. There was a post in there.

Ellie: Oh.

Bart: That’s why you shake her hand before the consult starts.

Jim: There’s a German post that I had overseas, um, but the sh- the shop shut down for COVID.

Ellie: Oh, okay.

Jim: And I just haven’t gotten back there and I’m not gonna get back there.

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: So it kind of this lost implant in there.

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: Yeah.

Ellie: Yeah, I did see that it was buried in there.

Jim: Yeah.

Ellie: Yeah. [laugh] Okay. And when did, when did, you said that was prior COVID?

Jim: That was September of ’19.

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: But really to go back to the, for the six months later, they can’t because they shut down.

Ellie: Yeah. Did they bone graft in that area?

Jim: No.

Ellie: No. Okay. So they only did the, the extraction?

Jim: Yeah.

Ellie: Okay.

Jim: The extraction and the abutment. Excuse me? The extraction and the, and [crosstalk]

Ellie: And the implant, yeah. Okay. Okay. Um.

Jim: Yeah. So it’s in there just doing nothing.

Ellie: Yeah.

Jim: Okay.

Ellie: [laugh]

Jim: But it’s not near sinus. It’s not near nerve. And I hope it can be worked around if not utilized, but it’s a weird brand. It’s a German brand.

Ellie: Um, there’s a possibility if we decide to move forward with treatment…

Jim: Yeah.

Ellie: We may be able to utilize it. We would need all the implant information in order to kind of, uh, see.

Jim: [inaudible]

Ellie: Okay. That’s perfect. Okay. That’s great. Because, um, they may be, may be able to utilize it, they might not be able to do it at the same time. It kind of like, depends. Yeah. On whether… [crosstalk]

Jim: As long as it’s not in the way.

Ellie: Yeah. As long as the placement is good, they, they make may be able to use it.

Jim: Okay. Great. Great.

Ellie: Yeah, as long as we have the information, because we’ll have to, obviously, have get some special type of component for that if we don’t already have those components.

Jim: Mm-hm.

Ellie: We’re probably not gonna have them.

Jim: Highly doubt it. Hard to have spare parts on that type of stuff.

Ellie: Yeah, it’s not, there’s so many different kinds of implants. It’s hard to have like such a wide variety. We have a few different brands, but, um, I, I don’t think we have anything that’s German. So…

Jim: Maybe you can tell me the plan here. Uh, how’s the team set up to deal with implants? Is there an oral surgeon that does the procedure? Is it a DDS? Is there a prosthodontist at the end? You do your milling and printing? You know, this…?

Ellie: Yeah, yeah. I can absolutely fill you in on all that stuff, obviously. Um, because you know what you’re talking about [laugh]. So Dr. Stuparich is a DDS, but he’s actually specialized in implants for quite a while now. He’s done a lot of these procedures where he does All-on-4, all in X. We call it all in X because we never know if it’s going to be four or five or six. Uh, it ranges between there. Once he plans the case, he’ll have a better idea. And if in the moment, he decides, we plan, you can say we plan for four implants. He decides in the moment he needs another one that. He does that in the moment. Okay. Um, we… Both doctors are actually prosthodontists by training. Um, so typically the way that it works is Dr. Stuparich will handle all the surgical part and then it will be both doctors on the restored event.

Jim: Okay.

Ellie: Okay. Um, they’re very good. [laugh]

Bart: Hey Ellie, are you on the call?


Ellie: Yeah, I’m here.

Bart: Hey, um, really good call. Thanks for sending this one over. Um, Ellie, let me ask you, what, what is the, uh, what’s the difference between, what are your advantages over uh, ClearChoice? In terms of getting it done with you? What, what’s, what’s, what’s your advantage and what, what’s the, what’s Dr. Stuparich’s advantage over say, like an oral surgeon doing the case? What would you say?

Ellie: Um, that everything’s done inhouse. There’s, we don’t, uh, refer out to anybody. Everything is done in our office and we care about our patients. It’s not some quick office where you just go in and they’d never see you again. We see all of our patients afterwards.

Female Speaker: [inaudible]

Bart: So everybody’s got different, different competitive advantages. There’s different angles, different ways to frame this. Okay. But one of the, one of the most important things that I think, and especially just reading this guy right now, um, the guy’s definitely serious. Um, but, and, and you can tell how he’s weighing his options, but I think one of the things that really sets you guys apart is being able to say that, listen, Dr. Stuparich, it’s not like he was just trained in surgery and implants and that’s it, right? But the main reason people come here is because Dr. Stuparich is trained and he’s an expert in restoring smiles, both from a function standpoint and an aesthetic point. So that means if it, if, to be able to restore everything, if that requires implants in order to achieve it, he can do it. If it requires crown and bridge, he can do it. If it requires veneers to achieve a certain aesthetic result, he can do it. So the main thing that’s really important here, and the reason why people come from all over the place to come to this practice is because he’s working towards a clinical outcome. Whereas a lot of other places, as you may have picked up on, they’re very All-on-4 or All-on-6 focused. Right? If that makes any sense.

If I give you a hammer, everything looks like what? A nail. Everything looks like a nail, right? And if you have so much trained in surgery, that’s great, but what counts is that, is that the teeth are made correctly, the teeth come together correctly. And that’s really at the core competency of what a prosthodontist is. So the surgical components are only there to serve and support. The implants are only there to serve and support whatever the teeth are going to look like and how the teeth need to function. And that’s what makes Dr. Stuparich as good as he is. Because you know what this guy has heard at ClearChoice and all these other practices. They get so heavy into All-on-4, All-on-4, All-on-4 that this guy’s gonna have very specific questions about implants, process, this, that, and the other. But he needs to understand like from a philosophical perspective, that Dr. Stuparich can do it without implants. He can do it with implants, it doesn’t matter. The point is he’s an expert in creating that particular clinical outcome. If implants is part of it, fine. Whereas other practices, they’re more implant focused. That’s at least the, that’s the perspective difference that I want to give ’em because I know at the other consultations, they’re gonna be highly, highly implant focused here. Does that make sense?

Ellie: Yeah, it makes sense.

Bart: Okay.

Ellie: Um, and Dr. Nouel’s an artist, she, she’s very good at what she does.

Jim: Excellent.

Ellie: Um, do you have any other questions for me right now?

Jim: Simply, I’m sure that it’s titanium bridges, I’m sure that it’s zirconium or at least a choice…

Ellie: So…

Jim: Of the final change and it’s the usual, you come in, get the extraction, get some temps, come back for two weeks and then three months, and then…

Ellie: Yeah. So typically the way that we work it in our office is we’re gonna come in for… Everything happens in the surgery. So they’ll do any extractions that have to happen, any bone grafting, uh, they’ll place the implants and then you’ll get those temporary teeth and then those are one material, you know, feel[?] in those anywhere from four to six months. And then you’ll come back and get the final teeth and the final material, which is usually zirconia. It depends. It, it depends. We can do them in different materials, but typically the finals are zirconia.

Jim: Okay, great.

Ellie: Yeah.

Jim: Sounds like…

Ellie: Testing and implants.

Jim: Yeah. Yeah. Well it sounds like a great shop to have it done.

Ellie: Yeah, all… One-stop-shop. Everything is done in, in-house. Um, we have a lab, which when we take some photos, you’ll be able to, you’ll, you’ll walk out and you’ll see. Um, yeah, in-house lab. We have tons of brand new technology, um, high-end stuff.

Jim: Have you read about that computerized implant placement thing?

Ellie: The X-Guide? There’s a couple of different ones. We use, we use, uh, X-Guide in our office. So it’s a guided, uh, implant.

Bart: Guys, something they’re not gonna hear. And again, this just kind of curtails off of what I already said, but if you have a patient that’s very analytical, they’ve been to a lot of practices and they’re using terminology like, oh, have you heard of X-Nav or Yomi robotics? And, and they’ve been sold on the surgery the whole time, you know, something good to bring up again, just so they start looking at you differently than the other practices, say, “Yeah. You know, a lot of the doctors that do these cases or a lot of the practices that really do a lot of implant cases, they spend so much time getting trained and buying the technology to do the surgery.” To them, the teeth are like a foregone conclusion where that’s really backwards. ‘Cause the surgery can be done, can be done correctly, but if the teeth don’t fit together properly and the teeth weren’t restored the right way, if the prosthodontic component, which is 10 times more difficult than the surgical component if that’s not done the right way, what happens? The teeth don’t fit together properly. It puts more pressure on the implant. The implants can fail, the teeth can crack, can break, and it can cause a lot of issues. And that’s where 99% of the issues if it’s not home care, they’re typically because the prosthetic and the teeth weren’t created and planned properly. So it really should go the other way around. But as you know, from your consultations, I mean, how often are they talking to you about the occlusion of the teeth, the way the teeth fit together and teeth are created? Hardly any, right? They’re talking about the surgical aspect, but that just pales in comparison. So it gives you an idea of the difference between a prosthodontist who plans the surgery after they plan and design and create the teeth to work from a functional standpoint. They have the, the implants are there to support that versus somebody that’s surgical focused. They do the surgery and then they just kind of figure out the teeth afterwards. Does that make sense?

That’s something really good to point out if you guys work for a prosthodontist or you work for a general dentist that’s done cosmetic cases. You ha- you have to use it to your advantage. Just like a surgeon’s going to use different things to their advantage. You have to know what your advantages are and when to, um, and when to shed light on those because it’s just gonna give him, um, reasons to question, right? That you’re just explaining it differently and somebody like him strikes me as, as that’s gonna make sense and really keep in mind every time he’s saying something, you guys are formulating the pitch and how to create urgency. So what has he said so far? He’s missing some teeth. He’s dealing with perio. He thinks it’s time to take action. He said that. He used that word. It’s time to take action. Okay? He also said that one of the price practices had exorbitant cost. One, he didn’t mention cost. He also said that he wants to do, he wants to know that he can get at least 20 years out of whatever it is. Okay? Um, so he’s pro- it sounds to me like he’s already ruled out on a, a multidisciplinary approach to treat his issue. Like, you know, a restorative, a res- restorative approach plus periodontal surgery and things like that. It sounds to me like he’s already ruled that out. Okay? Um, and he looks like to me a guy that if he’s gonna do something, he wants to do it once and he wants it done right. And I think that’s his main motivation for doing so much researching and asking all of these questions is he wants to make sure that it’s done right. So you guys can use that, all of those things to your advantage. Couple that with the fact that he’s gonna be leaving in September to go to New Zealand and you can put together a very, very compelling airtight pitch.

But this guy has like an engineer brain, right? He doesn’t show very much emotion, does he? He’s not, he’s not the easiest one to connect with, right? He’s got his arms crossed and his legs crossed. You know what that means subconsciously? Just think back to the days when you were single. You go talk to the girl. If she’s got crossed arms and crossed legs, she don’t want to hear it. She’s closed. You’re not doing something right. You know what I mean? So he’s closed off and he is kind of already said, “Hey, I’m just in the information-gathering mode.” So he has already basically told her, “Hey, I’m not buying anything today.” So he’s very well guarded and he’s, he seems to be, he, he wants to display that he’s a smart consumer, right? He’s a smart consumer, he’s gonna be in control, he’s going to get the questions. So we have to plant seeds in his mind to make him come to the conclusion that this is the most logical place for him to do the case for several different reasons. And that’s why you wanna throw some of the competitive advantages in there just in terms of how you see this. Does that make sense? The last thing this guy wants is to spend the money, do the case, and have an implant fail, right?

So when people get, when you have somebody like this and he starts going, yeah, you looked at X-Nav and you looked at this and that and blah, blah blah, and he wants to talk about the, the whole surgical component. We all know that the vast majority of implants that are failing and ailing isn’t because the surgery didn’t go right. We know that, right? It’s because they leave with teeth that don’t, that were, they have occlusion problems, right? That’s kind of where it stems from. So you say, oh yeah, you know, there’s tons of, tons of different technology. And frankly, from 10 years ago to today, the surgical predictability of these procedures has come so far. I mean, now we can approach cases that normally would’ve been very complicated and we can approach ’em from a surgical perspective with a great deal of transparency and certainty. So all of those things are good, but the one thing to keep in mind here is that the implants is not really what you’re getting. The implants are just a means to an end. The implants only exist to support the teeth and to support the trauma that those teeth are going, going to be under day and night, day and night. And that’s how you know, hey, do I want four or six? No, no, no. Do we need four or six, right?

What, what do we need to support the teeth and are the teeth going to fit together properly? And unfortunately, a lot of practices, a lot of doctors are so surgical-focused, the teeth are an afterthought. And the teeth, that’s where 99% of your problems come from is that the teeth weren’t restored properly. That’s why it’s smart for you to speak to someone like Dr. Stuparich who all of his fundamental training is in the prosthetic end. The prosthetic end. How the teeth fit together. They look at surgery through the lens of function and aesthetics. Does that make sense guys?

You see how I’m selling against a ClearChoice? How I’m selling against, um, other practices that won’t explain it that way. And how I’m getting my goal is to get his perspective off of the surgery because he’s getting into the weeds. I want to get him back on the big picture, which is the teeth. How they look, how they feel is gonna depend on how they come together. So we have to plan it out like that. Does that make sense? And then you can kind of get him out of the weeds and you switch his mind into thinking about something else. And what he’s gonna think is, “Dang, that makes a lot of sense. They didn’t say anything about that. I like these guys.” That’s how he’s gonna feel. That’s how someone analytical is going to interpret that. But it’s still a much more simplified approach than to go in and start talking about different workflows and different guided technology and all that stuff. You’re not gonna get any, any more towards a close with that. So use your competitive advantage to take someone that’s very analytical when they start getting in the weeds and get ’em out of the weeds onto the big picture. And oh, by the way, that big picture is your main competitive advantage, then you got ’em.

Ellie: Yeah. So we use that in our office. Um, we use [inaudible], which is like a 3D face scanner. We have an iCam so that’s, um, helps kind of meld everything together. So everything is very precise up to five microns. So everything is very, very high tech and, um, yeah. [laugh]

Jim: Hey. Okay. Wow. What next?

Ellie: Uh, so next, um, I want to ask you a couple more questions.

Jim: Shoot.

Ellie: So in terms of function, on a scale of one to 10, how important is function for you? And by function I mean having strong, healthy teeth that don’t move around [crosstalk] chewing.

Jim: Ten.

Ellie: Okay. And then the look of your smile, how important is that on a scale of one to 10 for you?

Jim: Secondary.

Ellie: Secondary. So ideally…

Jim: Functionality.

Ellie: Function is your way. All right. And then for maintenance on a scale of one to 10, um, and by maintenance, I mean the ease in which you’re able to take care of it and clean it. Um, how important is that to you?

Jim: Well, what I… it’s vital.

Ellie: Yeah.

Jim: Because implants screw up. But the large part, the large part because of the customer.

Ellie: Right. Is it’s, it’s a lot of user, I don’t wanna say “user error”, but it, it’s a team, right? We’re a team. As long as you’re doing your part and we’re doing our part, then everything…

Bart: So, typically where we’re going with maintenance is fix versus removable, right? So ease of maintenance, you want teeth that are, teeth that are fixed that you can just brush and floss, use a water pick like normal, or teeth that come in and out that you would have to take in and out at night and clean them separately.

I already know what this guy, we already know what he’s going to say, you know what I mean? You’re just getting him to say it. The other one that I would say here with him, um, would be longevity. ‘Cause we already know that’s a yes. And guys, if you’ve already, if you already know the answer, right? Like if he’s already answered it once, then when you ask the question just acknowledge it. Say, and you know, and the last one would be longevity. So I know you said you want something that’s gonna last 20 years, so you kind of strike me as a person that says, “Hey, if I’m gonna do it, I wanna do it one time. I want it done right and you and I want it to last. So for you, longevity would probably be pretty important, right?” And they’ll say yes. Okay, good. You know what I mean? Because he is already said it. You’re right Ellie, for going through the process, just lead ’em. So he doesn’t feel like he’s repeating himself in any, in any regard. Um, and if they already answered it, just acknowledge they already answered it. Gain agreement, keep moving.

Ellie: Right?

Jim: But I’ve heard that it’s water pick all the way.

Yes, we do recommend using a water pick typically at our two-week appointment. So we have a, a follow-up the next day after surgery. We have a two-week follow-up and then we typically have a three-month follow-up as well. Um, and at that’s that two-week follow-up, you do get a water pick. So you would purchase that on that visit. Um, it is the best thing we’re gonna need to keep everything clean.

Jim: You kind of have to.

Ellie: Well, yeah, it’s very, it’s, it’s not the same kind of cleaning that we did before, you know? So, uh, I don’t know. You’ve seen how they, how they work. They sit…

Bart: And guys, keep in mind. So he said function to 10, he said aesthetics secondary. So let’s just say in his mind he thinks aesthetics is a five outta 10, functions a 10 outta 10, and longevity, maintenance is a 10 outta 10. Something really good to share with him, right? Is that, hey, given the fact that you’re a good clinical candidate, um, typically, if the doctor’s going to design the case to restore the maximum amount of function possible and last as long as possible, typically that process is going to include a certain type of material that also gives you the very best aesthetics, right? So I know like it’s second- everyone says, oh, it’s secondary to eating, which I would agree, right? I would rather be able to eat and have teeth that worked properly rather than a beautiful smile if I had to pick one. But in your case, the most durable materials are also the most aesthetically pleasing materials. So you’re actually gonna probably be getting all three of those or all four of those things all in one. So that’s a good thing, you know what I mean? Just another seed to plant there. Because if longevity and maintenance wasn’t as important, you know what I mean? There are different types of material that can still have better, that can still have decent aesthetics, they just wear out faster, um, that, that you would have to replace. But in this situation, he already said he wants to do it and ha- have it last 20 years. So you know that removable prosthetics, printed prosthetics, PMMA, all that stuff is out. So you pretty much already know what the doctor’s going to treatment plan to achieve this outcome for ’em.

Ellie: …of these type of procedures…


…treatment, the way that they work is that they sit flush to the nose[?], okay? So food and stuff can get, uh, food and other items can get stuck in there. So it’s really important to clean it because you can’t, you’re not gonna be flossing. You can just use this one singular piece, um, you’ll be flossing out here. So you use a water pick, there’s a regular tip that you could use in the front and then the one that’s uh, kind of shaped like a hook, it’s called a denture chip.

Bart: I’m gonna fast forward because I don’t think this, this part is not gonna help as much. This part is probably something that he, that he’s heard already. Here’s what I’m thinking with this guy. I’m thinking, hmm, if I continue down this path, I’m not gonna close this guy today. I’ve gotta create an airtight logical reason for him to do it with us. Something that he has not heard anywhere else. And then I have to give him, I have to show him that it’s gonna be a great deal and I have to create urgency with the schedule to get him to do it now. Right? Which means I know in the back of my head, “Hey, Dr. Stuparich typically is booked out two months. I’m gonna look and see if there’s a way I might have an opening or something I can do to get you in in the next two weeks,” right? That way everything’s not rushed.

What you want is if you have to leave in September, you wanna have this thing done by September 1st. Done, right? Out the door. If you’re leaving by September 15th, you don’t wanna have it done on, by September 15th. We want it done maybe by August 15th, right? So I’m gonna see if we can get you in as early as possible so that we can take our time, work through the process. And when you go back to, to New Zealand, right, everything’s good. You’ve already had your checkups like you’re good to go. The bone is integrated, we’re good, right? That’s the most, that’s the most important thing. Typically it’s hard to get, you know, appointments on short notice, but I’m given that you have to go back to New Zealand, I’m gonna see what I can move around to get you in ASAP to have everything done here. Fair enough?

Like, you know, in your head, you’re gonna have to do that to close him. ‘Cause he’s an information guy. So he’s saying, I’m just gathering information. I’m not gonna make a decision today. So it’s gotta be an airtight reason for him to do it. Logically, he’s got to understand it. And then I’ve got to use the schedule in the New Zealand thing to create scarcity to get him to do it now. So when you guys are asking questions, you’re listening, formulating your pitch in your head, right? And you’re gonna have the entire second 10 to refine that pitch. But look at him, look at him, and say, how am I supposed to close this guy today? He doesn’t have enough urgency and everything that he’s told me says that he’s gonna wait. I’ve gotta look and sound totally different than all of the rest of them. And how do I appeal to his engineer mind? How do I do that? I’m gonna take the exact opposite approach. I’m gonna minimize the importance of the surgery and maximize the importance of the prosthetic component because my doctor is a prosthodontist. So is it ideal to have a surgeon do the surgery and a prosthodontist do the, the aesthetic? Maybe. It depends on how you spin it, but I can certainly spin it that I would rather have a prosthodontist do the surgery, right? Because that’s the person that has the clear picture and training in their mind of how the teeth need to look, feel, and function in the surgery. They’re doing the surgery in the spirit of the prosthetic, which is ideal. And there’s nothing lost in translation between the two doctors.

How often is a surgery done? A sur- a surgeon done a surgery and the, and the general dentist gets the case and goes, “Damn, I’ve got a problem. How do I restore this?” And they weren’t on the same page. That’s happened more than once, right? So again, I’m not saying this is the pitch for everybody. I’m saying this would be my pitch to use for this particular doctor. If you work with the surgeon, your pitch is gonna be different, but you have to understand what he’s heard at the other practices. Take the opposite fresh approach and approach that makes all the sense in the world. Keep it simple and then know where your urgency’s going to lie. Like how do I build urgency here? That’s where your brain is going and what we’re talking about right now isn’t really gonna help you with make any of those points, right? It’s information that he could hear anywhere. Make sense? Okay. Oops.

Jim: …that, that does it…

Bart: Sorry, I’m gonna, I’m gonna skip over to the second [crosstalk]

Jim: Well, you know…

Dr. Stuparich: …practice.

Bart: Okay, here we go with Dr. Stuparich a second time.

Jim: So he’s read up on the situation?

Ellie: He’s read up. He’s just gonna be here in just a minute.

Jim: Okay, fine.

Ellie: What time is your other consult?

Jim: Oh, not ’til this afternoon.

Bart: And Ellie, if you can, make sure you give Dr. Stuparich a quick run-through before he comes in the room on that one sheeter.

Jim: Largely, because I have such a weird scheduling time. There’s some pre-op thing. You have to do all the prep.

Ellie: Yeah.

Jim: And then there’s the big initial surgery. And then you have theoretically two weeks after that just to make sure. Then I’m on the plane outta here. So it has to be soon.

Yeah. Okay.

Bart: Look at this.

Jim: Greetings, sir.

Dr. Stuparich: How are you?

Jim: Pleased to meet you.

Dr. Stuparich: Welcome to our practice.

Jim: Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for taking the time.

Bart: That’s how the intro goes by the way. You stop, you’re excited to see the person, make a connection, give them a handshake. That is absolutely perfect.

Dr. Stuparich: So you’re from New Zealand, I hear?

Jim: Half and half, yes.

Dr. Stuparich: My daughter went there and loved it.

Jim: Yeah.

Dr. Stuparich: And I was praying that she wouldn’t move there because it would take a long time to go visit her. [laugh]

Jim: Which means you have to take a long time for the visit.

Dr. Stuparich: Right? I wouldn’t be able to do implants, you know. I’d have to like change my job. And…

Jim: You get the seminar and you make it a business. [laugh] It looks like you’re skilled out that you’d be the guy to teach, not to be…

Dr. Stuparich: Well, actually, we did. I did a, I was at a meeting in Mykonos last year with a bunch of Australians, uh, that ran the meeting there and they were amazing. It’s great to see the difference, the international philosophies. You learn so much because otherwise, in America, you’re sometimes in the bubble, you know? And so it’s good to see different techniques.

Jim: One thing I noticed, particular to my case is the consulting I’ve done with New Zealand is they’re very reluctant to do implants. They wanna save the tooth, save the tooth. Okay? Then there must be integrity behind that. Save the tooth. They really don’t like it. When I’ve checked, it’s not their first go. Here, there’s supermarket’s doing implants. So it’s…

Dr. Stuparich: Well…

Ellie: You know, and it’s…

Jim: And they’re marketing smiles here. There, they’re just kind of…

Dr. Stuparich: Well, you know, there’s…

Jim: Good old fashioned [crosstalk]

Dr. Stuparich: There’s, here, everybody has toilet bowl white teeth, and they love it. And they marketed that in Europe.

Bart: Here’s the thing, guys, if you have a philosophy that revolves more around implants than restorative by nature, you’re biased towards implants. Same thing. If all you want to do is just save the teeth, save the teeth, save the teeth, and you’re reluctant, as he says to do implants, well, your biased towards that, right? The answer is that, hey, to me, it doesn’t matter if we use implants or not. If, if implants are needed, right, to restore the function to the level that we need and create the aesthetics and the smile that we need, then we do implants, right? If I can do it by restoring the teeth without doing implants, I can achieve the same result in the, in the same amount of time and it’s less invasive, then that can be a very good option as well, right? If I can, if, if we can achieve the same clinical outcomes, but then it starts to, then you get the, you have to weigh the pros and cons of, okay, if I do this, which one can we maintain that level, that clinical outcome for the longest time possible? And that’s it.

So I don’t have a philosophy of, hey, implants are better or restorative is better. You know, we do both here. We’ll do full arch, full mouth reconstructions that don’t involve implants. We’ll do full mouth reconstructions that do involve implants. Um, but it’s just a, it’s a trade-off. And you have to be open to any technique and any means necessary to achieve the clinical outcome. Whatever’s gonna be the least amount of time, the most efficient way to do it. And last for as long as possible. So I don’t have much of an ideology either way, right? I’ll use any means necessary to achieve the clinical outcome that we’re working towards. Does that make sense?

That’s the answer there, right? Because someone goes, oh, I’m very reluctant to do implants. That’s stupid. Oh, I’m very reluctant to not, or all I wanna do is save the teeth, or all I want to do is implants. That, that, that again, loses a bit of credibility in terms of making an argument that the most important thing is the clinical outcome. ‘Cause everything else is just the process, the outcome, what you’re gonna live with, and the longevity, uh, of that outcome. That’s what’s important. So always remember your philosophy so you guys can throw this in because it’s going to make a lot of sense to people. It really is going to make a lot of sense to them.

Dr. Stuparich: You like the characterization of the teeth. You want them to have cracks in them and all that. And, and it, and you know what it is? It really comes down to you and what do you want, right?

Jim: [inaudible] and functionality.

Dr. Stuparich: Right, right. You can make it any color you want.

Jim: Yeah.

Dr. Stuparich: The function, the foundation, that’s the solid part. That’s the part that you can’t kind of compromise on. You want it to be solid. Um, and you know, why don’t you, so that we can kind of continue this conversation, give me a little synopsis of your meeting with…

Bart: Should have already had the synopsis. So he could have gone straight in with a sledgehammer right here. You know what I mean? Stuparich could have said, like, “Hey, so listen, so based on everything that, that Ellie told me earlier, it sounds to me and correct me if I’m wrong, okay? But it sounds to me like for you, function’s your number one. That’s a 10 outta 10 in terms of importance. Aesthetics, you said was secondary, but you also said that longevity and maintenance were both extremely important. Having something that’s easy to maintain, something’s that’s gonna last as long as possible, give you another 20-plus years, right? Which means it’s gotta have the best aesthetics, right? Does all that sound reasonable? Okay.” Boom.

Like, you go straight in with it, lead ’em, lead ’em, lead ’em. Say, listen, based on those four things, the question isn’t hey, do you want four implants or six? Or hey, do you want this material versus that? No, the question is more for me at this point. What do I feel like I need to do to get you from where you are, your current state of your smile, to the level of function, aesthetics, maintenance and longevity that you’ve said is important? Now, it’s up to me because the number of implants, that’s not up for debate. Right?

When I look at this CT, I’m gonna read the bone, I’m gonna say, hey, based on your age and what I think your bite force is, this is how many implants, or whether the implants need a bar or don’t need a bar. That’s all my call because I know what I need to give you the outcome. So what you want as far as the surgical side doesn’t matter, right? Because I’m gonna use whatever I need because you’re gonna hold me responsible for the results post-surgery, post-prosthetic. It’s what you live with. So now that I know what you want, let me tell you how I would approach the case. Sound fair?

And that’s gonna, that’s gonna resonate with this guy. ‘Cause this guy’s like a no-bullshit kind of guy. You can tell. Just by his tone, the way he talks. So you guys wanna, you wanna match that tone, get to the point, but the point that you make, it needs to hit hard. So you summarize it. But you, did you guys notice when I was saying that, how I’m taking control? I don’t care if he, what, what he thinks about implants. He’s not the doctor. Makes sense?

So I’m going to put all that to rest and now I’m gonna go into, right, the presentation in terms of telling him what I would recommend from a treatment plan perspective and the frame here is anti-surgery. The frame here that, is that the surgery is not as important as the restorative. Because you’re talking to a prosthodontist. Makes sense?

So utilize the things that, that, you’re biggest competitive advantages to your advantage in terms of how you frame because they’re not gonna spoken to like that. Keep in mind, all the other practices, if their goal is to sell implants, they’re gonna be talking about the implant the whole time. If they’re trying to sell All-on-4, they’re gonna be super focused in on the surgery. They’ll tell on everything that’s good about the surgery. Here’s what we use, here’s the technology, here’s this, here’s that, here’s this, here’s that. Here’s something where we… That doesn’t matter. Right?

So you take the exact opposite approach from there and your frame is this is how we prevent issues. This is how we prevent issues. We place the surgery with the prosthetic component first. Right? That’s first and foremost. Everything else just supports that. That’s why it’s not a topic of discussion. Do you want four or six? It’s really “Do I need four or six to support your bite?” Does that make sense? Right?

And everybody, like he said, here in America, right, there’s a lot of implants are being done. What a lot of people don’t know is how many implants are failing. And how many implants are ailing. And how many of these cases cause massive problems with people, right? When you’re dealing with bone loss from the implants, teeth that crack and break, all of that leads back to the fact that they were not restored properly. It wasn’t built and engineered correctly from the beginning. The surgery was done right, the prosthetic component was done wrong and that’s why you don’t get the longevity out of it, and that’s where you run into problems. So here’s what we’re gonna do to make sure that doesn’t happen. Boom, and you go into it. Does that make sense, guys?

That’s gonna appeal to his kinda engineer brain here. That frame and taking control and showing an unwavering confidence here is of the utmost importance. That’s how you’re going to, um, that’s how you’re gonna generate massive influence with him, is showing your confidence and your philosophy that’s different. It’s gonna make sense because it’s simple and then you’re gonna build trust because he’s going to trust you and the fact that you have a lot of confidence. So your certainty is going to influence him. So, and these guys can be really, really, really easy to sell, or they can be absolute nightmares to sell.

Ellie: This is Jim, as you’ve met.

Dr. Stuparich: Yes.

Jim: Mm-mm.

Ellie: Um, so he has had ongoing periodontitis[?] for at least 10 years. He’s lost a few teeth over time. He does have some bone loss and some teeth are mobile. He has gone to a couple of other consultations where they’ve recommended All-on-X or All-on-6. Also, they’ve recommended three bridges on implants as well. He spends half his year in New Zealand. So he’s looking to get something done sooner rather than later. And his main concern is going to be the function of the teeth. He wants to have good bite again.

Jim: Sounds just like I said. Good for you.

Ellie: Thank you. I was going to say, did I miss anything?

Jim: No, you took 30 seconds. [laughter] I took about 15 minutes.

Dr. Stuparich: Well, that all… We have to be concise.

Bart: Can you see this guy starting to become a little bit more animated with Dr. Stuparich? He’s a little bit more animated. I believe because of the way Dr. Stuparich came in versus the way Ellie came in. Ellie came in, got straight to it, but really didn’t spend any time kinda building rapport. Dr. Stuparich came in and his first things, and he does this naturally, was to connect, right, connect with the patient. And you can see him that he’s a bit more open. He’s even making jokes right now. This guy wasn’t joking earlier, you know what I mean? So he’s making jokes. He’s opening up. It’s going in a very positive direction.

Dr. Stuparich: Let me ask you, because this is, I think, an important conversation to have in terms of taking teeth out or keeping them. What are your thoughts on that? What do you want?

Jim: My hunch is that it’s more than marketing. It really makes sense to pull the old out and to go straight into the jawbone with new.

Bart: Now, again, what he wants doesn’t really matter, right? That’s the point. What he wants here doesn’t matter. I think Dr. Stuparich already has a hunch on what he’s going to say. Maybe that’s why he led with the question, um, but it’s better to shed some light on your thoughts on it first. Okay? And here’s what I mean, right? So, you can say, you know, a lot of people when they come in, they’ll be in a situation where I look at it, and remember, I’m a prosthodontist, so I’m looking at the teeth first. So I understand what they’re talking about in Australia, but I look at it and go, man, okay, could I get this done from a restorative standpoint? Can I treat the periodontitis[?}, restore the teeth, can I get them back to a level of function that, that they want? Even if aesthetically, it’s not perfect? And sometimes, I look at it and go, yeah, I can, okay, but at what cost? Right? How much of, of maintenance [inaudible] is it going to be and how long do I think they have? So sometimes, I can do it, but it’s not a long-term solution and you have to weigh the pros and cons there. Where, and some people come in and say, hey, I don’t care if I have to be in here all the time. Save my teeth, I don’t want them extracted. And for those patients, we do the work, we do it from a restorative point of view and we do exactly what it is that they want, which their number one goal is preserve and save their natural teeth for as long as possible even if it requires much more time and investment in order to do it, then that’s what we do.

I have other people that come in and they’re more indifferent. Right? They’re like if you can do it with saving my teeth, fine. If you can do it with implants, fine. But I want something that if I do it once, I wanna do it one time, I want it done the right way, and I want it to last as long as possible. And that’s why I have to look at it and weigh the pros and cons and try to put you in the best position possible to gain the function, aesthetics, and longevity that you’re looking for in the shortest amount of time, in the most efficient amount of time and that’s why sometimes, somebody like you may be leaning towards implants as opposed to restorative journey that’s gonna lead to a lot of appointments. It’s just a lot of work and upkeep to try and hang on to something that you’re eventually going to lose. Does that make sense?

Right? And that’s what I would say. That one shines a light. And you know what he’s gonna do? He’s gonna basically regurgitate that back. So he’d go, yeah, I was kinda thinking the same thing. Blah, blah, blah, blah. But the way that I said it is gonna lead him to agree with me rather than just asking him blind. I don’t really know what he’s gonna say, what he’s been told. Um, so it’s just a, a, a faster way to get there um, and he’s already tipped his hand to show me that he thinks that anyways. So me, showing him the slightest bit of insight into why I understand the way he thinks is just gonna build more trust between myself and the patient. Whether it’s the doctor and the patient or the treatment coordinator and the patient, anytime they show you their cards, any little bit of insight into how they’re feeling or how they’re thinking or what they’re going through is gonna instantly build rapport between the two of you. Because now you have that in common.

Jim: My hunch is if I try to do it half and half, I’ll just be dealing with periodontitis and there will eventually… And good faith efforts, it’s still happening.

Dr. Stuparich: I couldn’t agree with you more.

Jim: Then there’s the peri-implantitis as well. A lot of it is up to me to take care of. You can’t do it all, right?

Dr. Stuparich: Well, no, it’s actually a combination. So this is, this is what the challenge is with periodontal disease. When you, like for example, you have a molar on the upper left side that has about 90% bone loss on the back end of it. I looked at it on the full set of X-rays. When you have something round, cleaning something round, which comes out like, let’s say, your front teeth, you’ve had loss of bone on those two front teeth, but they’re round. So you’ve got a nice smooth surface. You can clean that a little bit better. The back teeth, where you have the molars and they have three roots. Well, when you lose bone, you’ve got…

Bart: You see, you can sum this up in 20 seconds. You know what I mean? ‘Cause right now, we’re engaging in dialogue where we already know he agrees with this. We already know he agrees. Right? So after he ga-, after he gave us, after he said, yeah, you know, my hunch is to do this because even with good faith efforts on both parts, I think that, you know, it probably wouldn’t last. Even doing what we can do. So I’d rather just get it done and do it right. He already said all this. So this is just the reasoning for saying it. Just say, you know what, I couldn’t agree more. We could try it from a restorative perspective, but sometimes it’s just like throwing good money out your bag[?] and to be frank, you strike me as somebody that’s done their research and somebody that says hey if I’m gonna do this, let’s do it one way, let’s do it right, and let’s make it last. Do it the right way. Right or wrong? Yep, that’s me. Okay, cool. Let’s go into it.

So let me show you what I see. This is how I would approach the case, given where you are and everything that you want. Here’s what I would do. And then go straight into it. Because to talk about this more is just uti-, it’s just utilizing time um, but you’re not getting anywhere. You’re gonna be in the same exact spot after you say this is where you were before. Right? So we’re trying to go straight to the close and keep it as simple as possible.

You guys have to remember, like, these conversations, words, it’s like fill-, it’s like filling up a cup with water, okay? And you want that cup to filled up with something that they can drink easy. You know what I mean. So you don’t want it to go over let’s say, halfway. So they can take it and drink it, it’s no problem. The more you talk, the more you’re filling that cup. The more the water starts to overflow and overflow and overflow. And sometimes they forget the points that matter the most, because so many things were spoken. So we want to keep it as simple and as powerful as, as we possibly can here. Okay? Um, on the next call, we’re gonna go through the rest of the second 10 and the third 10 on the close here. Because I want you to see how everything ends in this consultation because we have all three 10s. Um, but I wanna open it up for a little bit of questioning right now. Do you guys have any specific questions? Did they type anything in here? Anybody have any specific questions that you want me to answer before we get off the call? If you do, just come off Mute.

Okay, if you don’t, remember, I’m gonna do, I’m gonna do a quick overview here. Okay?

So what did we learn that’s the most important on this call? You wanna read the patient that’s in front of you. You have somebody that’s analytical, right? Somebody very analytical. You’re asking questions. And your purpose for those questions is to determine their current train of thought because they’ve already had a certain degree of influence from the other practices. So I’m trying to determine, what is your train of thought. What are they looking for here, right? Then I’m looking for ways, based on their train of thought, of how I can cast doubt in the way that they look at those other practices versus us. And you have to know and understand what your competitive advantages are. You have to know and understand that. So somebody like him, he’s gonna be very quick to receive information about how to avoid problems with implants. Because he probably didn’t care much about that from the other practices, okay? He’s gonna be very interested to hear your philosophy on prosthetics over surgery because based on how he’s talking, he’s been spoken to probably 90% of the content’s been related to the actual surgery and the implants, right?

So you’re thinking how do I make an airtight logical case? This is guy’s showing me not a lot of urgency, but he’s got a date so I know he has urgency. And he’s got another appointment today in the afternoon. So this guy wants to make a decision now. He wants to make a decision now. So how am I gonna get that commitment? I have to sound different. I’ve got to sound more appealing. So what’s going to be more appealing to him? Efficiency, predictability, and I have to show him that he’s getting a great deal. I need to do those things, and then I need to create scarcity with the schedule. Scarcity and exclusivity to show him that I could get him in now where normally I wouldn’t be able to get him in for a month or two months. That’s how I’m gonna do it. Or at least that’s, that’s my strategy for how I would be going in to close him.

So as you guys have someone in front of you that’s speaking, you are constantly formulating the pitch in your head. Constantly formulating the pitch and what it’s going to take. And you’re trying to break down their guard and get them to open up and get them to forget that they’re a consumer. The more they forget that they’re a consumer, the more really good information you’re going to receive. And the information can just be the slightest little insight into what they perceive is very important with procedure, right?

What’s really important between the first and second 10? Go get with the doctor, and get the doctor a quick run-through so the doctor can come in, build rapport, recap on what’s most important and then set the frame based on where you are and what you think is, and what you’ve said is the most important. Here’s how I would approach the case, and frankly, I think you’re an absolutely candidate for this, but let me show you how I would approach this case to achieve the maximum amount of function, beautiful-looking teeth and do this one time and do it right so that you have the maximum amount of longevity. Makes sense? So here’s what I would do. Boom. And they’re into it in like, five minutes.

It doesn’t take 20 minutes, you know? When you got, you have to prep ’em, you have to, you’re gonna fill out that one-sheeter where it also has urgency there. So with this guy, I would put urgency level three, maybe four. That’s what I would put because I want Dr. Stuparich to know that this is not a done deal. That this guy is there, he’s told me he’s here to get information. I asked why he didn’t move forward with the other companies, said I hadn’t gathered all the information yet. But he has gathered all the information, he just got, has not gathered the information that he wants yet. Makes sense?

So, and I would tell ’em, here’s my take on this guy. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Here’s where I need help. He’s going to New Zealand but this guy is like, locked in. It sounds like he’s been presented with the option of restoring his teeth and treating perio. I think he’s already ruled that out. So he’s going with implants, but he’s getting several different opinions and he’s a no-nonsense type of guy. So you wanna prep him as much as you can within say, a two-minute period before he comes into the second 10. Right? But the most important thing is for you guys to know when you’re talking to someone, you gotta know how you’re gonna close ’em. ‘Cause based on how you’re gonna close ’em, that could have a tremendous in the next question that you asked ’cause you’re always framing. So if you don’t know how you’re going to close ’em, um, it’s hard to go through the entire consultation. Okay?

So know your competitive advantages. When I asked you guys, hey, what’s the difference between you and ClearChoice? You better be able to tell me. If you’re an oral surgeon practice and I say, hey, what’s the difference between you doing the case and a GP doing the case? You better be able to tell me. Right? And you better be able to make it real simple. Right? ‘Cause whenever you get the opportunity to do those things, that’s how you guys set yourself up as a figure of authority and that’s how you create a different perception in the patient’s mind where all of a sudden, it’s not apples to apples. You’re a totally different animal. Makes sense?

Okay, so on the next call on the mentorship, make sure you don’t miss it because we’re gonna go through the rest of the second 10 and we’re gonna go through the third 10 on the close and I’ll show you guys, I’ll show you guys what happens. Okay? If there’s any questions now, um, I can take ’em.

Female Participant: [inaudible] close?

Bart: Did he close? You’re gonna find out. Who thinks he closed? Who thinks he… Do you guys think they got him closed on this call? If I watch the call up until this point, up until this point and you haven’t seen the rest of the second 10 yet, but up until this point, I would say no. If this is all I’ve seen. I would say, he’s gonna get all the information and say, “I’ll call you back.” That, that’s… If I was a betting man, that’s what my money would be on right now. But we haven’t even seen the presentation from Dr. Stuparich yet. Right? So once you see the presentation, and you can get a read on him, right, his emotional commitment and then you can see how Ellie closes it and how she uses the schedule, well, then we’re, then we’re gonna find out, okay?

Female Participant: [inaudible]

Bart: Oh, go ahead. Go ahead with the question. Just come off Mute.

Nicole: Okay, yeah. You said, um, we’re gonna keep the conversation simple and powerful and then you listed three, um, kind of key points, which you said efficiency, reliability, and what was the third one?

Bart: Efficiency, reliability… No, function, aesthetic, longevity, and maintenance.

Nicole: Oh, function. Thank you. Thank you.

Bart: Right, because is, everything revolves around that outcome. This is the one thought you guys have got to keep in your mind. How we do what we do is not important. Because the how changes with every patient and every circumstance. Do we believe in bone grafting? If bone grafting is necessary? Do we believe in six implants or four? Depends. If it calls for six, we do six. If it calls for four, we do four. Do we believe in saving teeth, if we can save the teeth and deli-, deliver a long-term result, then that’s a great option. Right?

It doesn’t matter. We don’t have any preconceived agenda here that everything we look at, we see All-on-4. Everything we look at, we see implants. Everything we look at… ‘Cause that’s where you get into ideology. And that’s where you start taking every body, every patient and try to fit them in the same mold and that’s where you run into problems. Because at the end of the day, everyone is individuals. Everyone has different wants, needs, financial budgets. Our job is to craft something custom for you to achieve a very specific outcome. And we do that in a very custom manner for every single patient. So with every single patient, it’s a blank slate with us. That’s the point. Makes sense, guys?

You have to have that like, embedded in your psyche and that’s gonna resonate with everyone, because everywhere else they go, these guys are like on All-on-4 crack, okay? Everything they see in an All-on-4. Everything they talk about is an All-on-4. So when you take the exact opposite approach, even though you know damn well, you’re gonna present All-on-4 zirconia here, that’s not the point. The point is that’s not your focus. Your focus is the outcome and I’m trying to tell them that when your outcome changes, our approach changes. We’re not stuck in one approach to achieve one outcome without you seeing that outcome as important. Makes sense? Right. And if you have to disturb complacency, don’t be afraid to tell somebody like, hey, you’ve been to all these consultations. Let me ask you, did, did any of them mention how many of these implants are actually failing all across the country? Because sometimes, I have to like, you gotta smack ’em, right? To disturb their complacency. So something like this. Let me ask you, did any of these guys ever talk to you about how these implants could fail? Do you know what the number one reason why they fail is? Outside, of course, somebody that just leaves and never, never takes care of it, never comes back for the maintenance and they smoke every day. Outside of that, do you realize what the biggest reason is?

What’s he gonna say? He’s gonna say, “I don’t know.” Then you say, guess what, it’s not, it’s not because the surgery went wrong, necessarily, from a surgical perspective. It’s because the doctors didn’t have a good understanding of complex occlusal cases. And what occlusion is is how your teeth actually fit together. If they don’t fit together properly, and you’re hitting first on the left side when you bite, just half a millimeter before the right side, what happens to the implants on the left side? They’re absorbing more trauma, more trauma, more trauma, more trauma, more trauma. And over time, what happens? It fails. The prosthetic cracks. Or it chips. Those are the issues and that’s why everybody if they need a second opinion, you’re in the right place. That’s why you come see somebody like Dr. Stuparich that’s a periodontist.

Do you guys see how I do that just to cast the doubt in their mind? You guys need to know when to do it and how to do it. But with somebody like him, that type of strategy is gonna be unbelievably effective. Right? Because he’s trying to make a smart business decision, but he’s also getting in the weeds here, where he’s learning about robotics and guided surgery and even different implant brands. So we’re gonna hit him from a completely different approach.

So make sure you guys are really clear on overarching philosophy is doesn’t matter how we do it, it matters what we’re trying to achieve. And then from a how we do it standpoint, we figure out what we’re trying to achieve and we plan out the prosthodontic and restorative approach, how the teeth are gonna look, and how they’re gonna function, and then the surgery comes to support such function and aesthetics. Surgery’s the last thing that we look at. Does that make sense, guys? Okay, cool.

All right. Well, go close somebody and we’re gonna pick this up right where we left off on the peer mentorship calls so you guys can see the close, okay?

Ellie: I actually have one question, Bart. Sorry.

Bart: Okay, shoot.

Ellie: Um, so just in regards to like, our second 10, ’cause you had said Dr. Stuparich had just got in there, uh, no recap, we should have recapped before he came in, which we do. We recapped all the patients before he goes into the consult. So we’ve been working with our trainer just to do recaps in front of the patients. So should that not have been done with this patient specifically? Or is that just something that we shouldn’t do going forward?

Bart: Well, it sounded to me like you hadn’t done a recap, that’s why Dr. Stuparich asked you to do the recap there.

Ellie: No, we usually do… Well, he… Jim, the patient started talking immediately once Dr. Stuparich sat down and he stopped his little… his, uh when he stopped talking. So he just ran right in. Normally, we do it when Dr. Stuparich sits down, he in-, I introduce Dr. Stuparich, and then we do a quick recap to go over everything in front of the patient, just to make sure we didn’t, I didn’t miss anything, that we’re all on the same page.

Bart: Not bad, but there’s certain information that you can’t do in front of the patient.

Ellie: Yeah.

Bart: Like, you’re not gonna sit there in front of the patient and go, “Now, Dr. Stuparich, this patient is a three out of 10 on a scale of urgency, so I need to take [inaudible].” [crosstalk]

Ellie: [laughter] Yeah. No, we just, we do the rest of that behind the scenes when I, when I talk to Dr. Stuparich before he comes in.

Bart: Correct. But then…

Ellie: Okay.

Bart: Then you’re doing it correct. I was under the impression that there, there was no handoff and that’s why Dr. Stuparich stopped you. Um, or stopped the call and asked you. But hey, if you’re giving him the insight already, and he knows the guy has said, “Hey, I’m just here to get information. I went to ClearChoice. I went to here. Here’s this, here’s that.” You told him what he thinks. You told him what kind of person he is. You told him what his urgency is. You already went through all that. Then you’re doing it perfectly. Then it’s just Dr. Stuparich taking that information and being able to efficiently as possible connect with the patient, right? Do a recap on what the patient wants and make it very clear that what he’s going to recommend um, is the way that he sees the most efficient way to achieve this outcome, and then go into the presentation. Because he can do that very, very, very, very efficiently if he has all of the information. But if he has the information, and it takes 15 minutes to get there, then, you know, then that’s something that we can work on, trying to get there in five minutes instead of 15. Um, that’s all.

And that, that, that kind of thing, that kind of thing just comes with practice and reading the patient also. Right? Like, this patient, he was able to get a rapport with this patient in a minute. He had him opened up, he had him talking. The patient looks super comfortable. Um. And, and he did a great job there. You just don’t want to go into things that aren’t gonna help you close because it can cause a clutter effect in their mind. And I want them to be super clear and I want them to be very logical and airtight when I make that presentation.

Ellie: Okay.

Bart: Cool?

Ellie: Yep. Thank you.

Bart: All right, guys. Good job. Go sell some arches, go close ’em. Go close ’em. And I’ll see you guys on, uh, on the peer mentorship call. And if you have any questions, anything more, just reach out to us direct, okay? Take their money. Get the signature today. Get ‘er done. All right, bye-bye guys.

Female Participant: Bye.

Bart: Bye.


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