The Closing Institute - Peer Mentorship Call

February, 2024

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Bart: What’s going on? Look at all these closer sharks. Sharks coming online. [laugh]. Alright. Alright. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. I’m just letting everybody sign on here real quick. Good to see everybody. Good to see everybody. Everybody doing good?

Nicole: Yes.

Bart: Alright. Alright. Cool. Cool. Real… Well, we’re just letting everybody sign on. Anybody- anybody have a- an interesting consultation that you guys have been through since the last call? Anybody wanna share anything a tough one or a good one, or a crazy one, or anything you guys wanna share while we’re just waiting?

Jenny: So I do have one, but it’s a little explicit with what they asked.

Bart: Right. Good. I knew it. Good. Entertain me. Let’s go.

Jenny: So she told me that, um, when she doesn’t have any of her teeth, um, will she be able to, you know?

Bart: Oh yeah, I get it.

Jenny: So I was like, well, you can just pop it out. He’ll love you forever. and then [laugh].

Bart: [laugh] Well, you’re kind of selling against fix though, right?

Jenny: Well, no, she’s gonna do the all-in-four, but she means the temporaries.

Bart: Oh. Oh, okay.

Jenny: So I was like, oh, no. Yeah, you’re perfectly fine. You just nah walk and then nah you’re good.

Bart: Well, what happens when she gets the fixed?

Jenny: Then they’re gonna go back on regular marriage, I guess. [laugh].

Bart: Okay. Okay. So it’s like… Okay. So…

Jenny: She just wanted to make sure the temporary time that she doesn’t have any, she’s afraid that it might pop out of her mouth. [laugh]

Bart: Well, now that is an interesting concern.

Jenny: So my face turned completely red and she was like, listen, personally, I just need to know. I was like, I already know where this conversation is going. [laugh].

Bart: Hey, it- it was Valentine’s Day. The woman’s head’s in the right place. It’s all good.

Jenny: It was good. Yep. [laugh]. She was worried about the head for sure.

Bart: [laugh] Okay. Well, that’s a new one. That’s a new one. Did you close it though? That’s the question. Closed it. Alright. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome.

Boston Implant Center: Bart, I wanted to share something. Nothing crazy, but, um, since the beginning of the year, we switched a little bit like you told us before, to start doing more finance in-house and we’ve been selling more than we were before because of that. Also, I have a lot of people from November, December coming back now. So…

Bart: Awesome. How much are you guys taking down?

Boston Implant Center: Thirty percent.

Bart: Thirty percent. Wow. Super aggressive. Okay, great.

Boston Implant Center: Yeah.

Bart: That’s awesome. I mean, 30% is gonna cover all your costs anyways.

Boston Implant Center: Right.

Bart: That’s great. How long of payment terms are you giving them?

Boston Implant Center: We’re doing about 12 months [inaudible] but 12 months has been working a little better for the patient because we- the way we splitting the 30% and then… So it’s been working pretty well.

Bart: Yeah. That’s great. That’s totally reasonable.

Boston Implant Center: The reason for 30% is at least that we don’t- you know, if they do not make the payment or something happens, we have covered, you know.

Bart: Exactly. Exactly. That’s great. Very few practices are going to be doing that. You know, if they don’t get financed for the whole thing, they’re usually kinda out the door. And there’s a lot of people out there with credit challenges that do have good jobs. And they can make payments, you know what I mean?

Boston Implant Center: And I wanna share that with everyone because we started about two weeks ago, and within the past two weeks we sold about 250,000. So it’s been a good two weeks. So I wanna share so everyone can benefit and try to like… You know, it’s something little that if you change, you’re gonna see more breakfast. So…

Lisa: Are you…

Bart: A hundred percent.

Lisa: Are you keeping them in the PMMAs for the year then until they pay?

Boston Implant Center: Yeah, we keep them until they- their final pay. Yeah.

Lisa: Awesome. Thank you.

Jenny: I had one patient that came in and I gave him- it was also for an all-in-four. CareCredit. Didn’t approve him for everything, but then I offered him [inaudible] as a second and he took them both, and bo- the whole treatment got done- paid for.

Bart: Wow. Awesome. One thing also to keep in mind, guys, so if you’re gonna put them in a PMA, you’re gonna keep them in there for a year. You might want to consider… What I would do if it was me, I would go ahead and sell a bar. I would put the PMMA on a bar, right? Uh, and- and go from there. I- I’m not sure. Coz what you don’t want is it breaking every two months, right? Because you gotta come back in and then they have to… Not… It’s not like you just reprint it and you’re done. You gotta reprint it. You have to stay in it, you have to glaze it, you have to do all of these things to get it right and replace it. So if you got somebody on financing, you’re financing them out and you know you need that PMMA to last 12 months, I would charge for a bar and I put all those PMMAs on a bar, right?

Because time is money. So if you’re collecting it over time, if all of a sudden you charge a fee, you give a good deal and then over the course of the next 12 months, they have to come in for, let’s say- let’s say three different times to get a new PMMA, there’s a lot of hours eaten up for that. Um, and that’s just money straight outta your- straight outta the business’s pockets. So, um, okay. If we need it to last three months, that’s one thing. But if you need that thing to last for a year, um, I would put it on a bar so that you guys aren’t constantly worrying about it.

Lisa: Or we’ve been using, um, our 3D printer with the OnX Tough 2 for provisionals. And we’ve been having a lot of luck with that. Like our provisionals have been lasting… Now, we haven’t tried it for the year term. We’ve been done- doing it for the four months.

Bart: Right.

Lisa: Provisional phase. But, um, I think that could be good too coz printing is a little bit less expensive than the PMMA from a lab. And patients love them.

Bart: Totally. Well, and they- and they look really good.

Lisa: They do.

Bart: They just… If it’s- if it’s out 12 months, the, uh, a printed prosthetic just like a PMMA, if it’s on a bar, it’s just- you’re not gonna have to worry about it. You know what I mean? The- the cross stabilization that you get, it’s just so much better for you to go ahead and do that if you need it to last for a year. Right? You just… You don’t want somebody coming in every three months, you know? It’s not a great patient experience. And certainly, it sucks a lot of the profit out of it for you guys because the- they’re- they- those appointments, they’re never scheduled. They just happen. They pop up and here they come and it throws the whole day off. And listen, it’s not a big deal, but once you guys- if you guys start doing in-house financing, you’re starting to learn how to- how to do really well with- with price shoppers, getting people pre-qualified and you guys are gonna start selling more and more and more.

It’s never a problem when you’re doing low volume. But when you start doing high volume, and let’s say you guys are in-house financing one a week or two a week, all of a sudden if you got- if you’re selling 10 or 15 of those cases every month and each one of those people are coming back on average two to three times for the year for revisions, you can imagine that can get really, really, really crazy really fast. So at scale it can be, you know, an issue. Whereas hey, it’s one every once in a while you can accommodate it. But I’m just saying as you guys ramp up and you sell more and more, um, every time you make a sale, you’re trying to make a sale and mitigate any future issues. Make sense?

Boston Implant Center: Another change we made since last week, last… Um, no, the last time we met with you on the call I think was last week or the week before. Um, since then we’ve been pre-qualifying people on the first 10, um, and then it’s been helping as well.

Bart: Okay. Awesome. Well, and look, that- that kind of leads us right into, um, right into the topic of the call. So last time we went through, uh, a video and we talked about the importance of pre-qualifying and really how to know the difference. Alright, do I need to pre-qualify this person or is this a price shopper that I have to add value to, or what is this? So what I want to do on the call today is go through a video with you and I’m gonna show you kind of the difference between a price shopper and someone we have to pre-qualify. And we’ll go through and talk about which one you think this is in the first 10 coz it’s a little bit different. Um, and there is totally different signals from this particular patient. So I know we normally don’t do two of these in a month, but I thought this played really, really well, um, coming off the heels of the last call. So, um, let’s go ahead and we’ll start with, uh, the first 10 here. Um, you guys make sure that- that you’re muted or the video, and then I’ll just stop as I always do and we’ll go along and we’ll kind of talk about it. But this kind of plays right into, um, uh, where we left off on last call. Go ahead.

Doctor: Alright. And I believe that, Sherry, excuse me, told me that you’ve had other consults before we related to this. Okay. So you’re already familiar then…

Patient: Yeah.

Doctor: …with the whole ideal process. So your main concerns are the implants having no life impact with the teeth that you currently have missing?

Patient: No. No. They just feel [inaudible]

Doctor: Okay. Would you say they’re mainly in the back?

Bart: I… So the main thing, if you guys already know that they’re coming in and they’re a second opinion, um, the question in your mind is why have they not moved forward? Right? That’s what you’re thinking. You’re thinking, why haven’t they moved forward? Why is this a second opinion or a third opinion? Is it because they didn’t have any money and they couldn’t get approved? Or is it because they are shopping for a better deal? Right? It’s typically one of those two. So you’re trying to identify which one- which one it is for this particular patient as quickly as you can. Right? Because if it has to do with financing concerns, most likely you’re going to need to pre-qualify and go ahead and run them and see if they’re approved. If it’s a shopper and financing wasn’t the reason, then we’re gonna handle that a little bit differently.

Doctor: More in the front?

Patient: The back.

Doctor: More in the back. Okay. Has this kind of been like an ongoing process, would you say, Nick? That’s not gonna work. Okay. So I’m just going here and I’m gonna ask a couple of questions, probably questions you’ve been asked before.

Patient: Okay.

Doctor: So, sorry, some of this kind of feels like a deja vu, but just because this is our first time meeting one another, I am the treatment coordinator here. So I do work next to Dr. Smith, who is the one who does the treatment. Sorry.

Patient: Okay.

Doctor: It’s kind of distracting me. That way I can let him know what exactly is going on, what you’re expecting.

Patient: The all-on-four.

Doctor: The all on four. Yeah. So that is what you’re wanting, is the all-on-four?

Patient: Yeah. I mean that’s what everybody else, like the last two recommended. So I mean, I like them.

Doctor: You like the all-on-four?

Patient: I mean, it’s cool. I mean, I’m gonna need it. I’m just being honest because I got a lot of missing teeth in the back.

Doctor: In the back. Okay. Have they…

Patient: Because I had a bridge that fell out, so [inaudible]

Doctor: Okay. Was that on your- your lower right?

Patient: Yeah. Lower right.

Doctor: Okay. You were pointing to it. Um, was that recent?

Patient: Yes, about last month.

Doctor: Okay. No pain with that when it came out?

Patient: No, it was just a little blood, but…

Doctor: Okay. Are you having any current pain right now?

Patient: No. Not really. No. I haven’t felt nothing. You know, it just feels funny when you eat on it. It’s about it.

Doctor: Okay. Okay. Is this something you were looking at wanting to get done soon, or you’re just kind of getting the idea?

Patient: Yeah, I’m just getting the pricing.

Patient: Okay.

Patient: Like- like what’s the- what it is it’s gonna cost and, you know.

Doctor: Okay. Have they gone over before, like the process, how long it can take, what you’re looking at?

Patient: Well this- the place I went to last year was like, they do one day service. What we call [inaudible] something like that. It’s right like, um, Westtown, uh, Kirkwood. But they do the one-day treatment. One of my friends went and had it done.

Doctor: Oh, okay.

Patient: And I liked that they did it.

Doctor: Oh, okay.

Patient: So I went over there and got their prices. Then I went to another place. She quoted me like 25, but I was just trying to see, you know, in between what’s the best price for me.

Doctor: Okay.

Bart: Okay. So this guy’s clearly here price- to price Shop. Okay. Now it’s weird coz he said- I think he said Nuvia. I think he said he went to Nuvia and got quoted a price. That’s where his friend went and actually had it done. And then he said he went to another place and he said she quoted him 25. Right? So we’re dealing with a price shopper. So when you’re dealing with a price shopper, what’s the very first thing that- what’s the- what’s the very first thing that we’re trying to establish with this price shopper? With any price shopper, right? Their mindset is all-on-our is all-on-four. It’s all the same. I need to get the lowest price, right? So the first thing we’re trying to establish is what? Who knows?

Robin: Customize it for them.

Bart: We’re trying to establish that all-on-four isn’t one thing, right? That all-on-four can be done a lot of different ways with a lot of different materials. And it’s not a real… It’s not like a product on a shelf, right? All-on-four, it’s just a- it’s just a phrase that describes all the teeth going on four implants. It doesn’t describe what the ma- the what kind of material you’re gonna make the teeth out of. Sometimes it’s four implants, sometimes you can do five, sometimes it’s six. It doesn’t really describe anything outside of all the teeth going on four implants, right? There’s a lot of different techniques in terms of doing all-on-four. There’s a lot of different ways to sequence it. There’s a lot of different timeframes, right? So what one practice does with all-on-four and what they charge versus another practice doing all-on-four, it sounds like it’s the same, but it could be totally different. Does that make sense?

That’s the first thing you wanna establish. Because the way that everybody else sells it, they sell it as kind of like, oh yeah, it’s all-on-four, here’s what we do. Boom. They make it sound like everybo- like it’s the same thing for everybody else. So that’s the first thing that you want to do, is establish that it can be multiple different things, right? Now, once we have successfully established that, that means a couple of things for the patient. Number one, depending on what your expectations are, we can customize the treatment to make sure that you get everything you need, right? That’s number one. Number two, if there’s multiple ways to do it, then there’s multiple ways for us to get you in a better position depending on what your budget is.

So it’s not a take it or leave it, Hey, is 25 grand, take it or leave it. It’s not a take it or leave it here. A lot of places make you want to think about, hey, it’s take it or leave it. Especially a place like… Uh, and this is like how you sell against it, right? But you know, especially a place like Nuvia where they’ve got tons of locations when they say, “Hey, it’s gonna be 25 grand,” you know where the majority of your money’s going, right? It’s going to that big corporation to pay for all those people and all their overhead and all their advertising. That’s what you’re paying for, right? Okay. Here, it’s not like that boom. And you- you’re just throwing things in there. But that’s the most important thing with price shoppers, is number one, all-on-four is not just one thing. It’s not a… Uh, it’s- it doesn’t describe anything specific, number one. Number two, there’s multiple different ways to do all-on-four, which means we can do all-on-four people with different budgets, right? And we can do all-on-four to achieve, uh, different levels of expectations for people. Does that make sense, guys? So it doesn’t mean you have to address the price right now and go into price because I’m not- I’m not hearing, “Hey, I need to a hundred- 100% pre-qualify at this point.” It sounds like he’s- he’s price shopping. Um, we’re going to get more into it, but that would be the very first step, is to establish that all-on-four is not one thing. We can customize it based on price. We can customize it based on expectation. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay. Then get right back into the first 10. We’re going to address it before we go to the second 10, but I would establish that right off the bat.

Ghazal: Um, I have a question. I’m sorry. So, I- I had this patient who came in. Wm, when I spoke with him, um, I said, well, have you done any consult? How familiar you are? Um, he said he hasn’t done any consults, but he knows like what he needs. Like he had an idea. He came in, we quoted him a price. I got him pre-qualified. He told me he wants to use his 401k and I scheduled him for a second appointment to- basically for him to come back with the 401k money so we can put as a down payment and move forward. Two days later he called and he said that he got- he had consults before us and the price that we told him was very, um, different than what they told him. And then the prices came a little bit made up to me as like he’s actually just trying to downgrade it to, you know, to like that amount.

He said one of the offices, um, quoted 15K for upper and lower both. And another office quoted 9K for upper and 9K for lower. I, um, exactly did what you explained, like, um, tell me what was included, what material. He did not give me any information and I asked him if he has a copy of the treatment plan that he can email to me or bring in so we can go over everything and like, I can make sure, like what I’m offering is very similar and all of that. And he just stopped all communications with me. Um, did I go wrong anywhere or is- like- if I can add a step there so we don’t lose the communication, you know, so I can keep the patient still interested in going, please?

Bart: Yeah. So if you went wrong anywhere, it- it might’ve been in the first consultation. So the best thing to do is to proactively get in front of it with explaining what all-on-four is, right? Because if some… If you’re already dealing with a second opinion, you want to proactively talk about that instead of reactively when they call you back and say, “Hey, I got a price that was way less than yours.” If you already explained it that “Hey, all-on-four, that can be a lot of things that are a lot of different,” all you have to do to dramatically and I mean dramatically change the price of the treatment and the outcome of the treatment, all you have to do is change the material of the teeth. That’s it. And they may look similar, but they could be totally different. There’s so many different types of materials and sometimes that’s something that practices will do is they’ll say, “Hey, we’ll do an all-on-four. I can get you started at 14,000.”

And what the patient doesn’t know is that specific type of material that they choose for that, um, is only going to last a very short amount of time. And then you’re going to have to continuously replace it or you’re gonna have to upgrade. So all they do is just break it up into two different sales and once you’re in it, you don’t really have any recourse. So that’s just a really good example, right? Of- of how practices can do it. Whenever you’re dealing with price shoppers, that’s why you have to establish that it can be totally different from practice to practice, right? And here we’re going to create all-on-four to specifically get you what you want in terms of an outcome. That’s the first thing. But let’s say you say, “Hey, as far as an outcome, I want this, this, this, and this.” And we look at it and in order to actually accomplish it, you say, “God, that- man, that’s too high. There’s no way I can afford it.” It doesn’t mean we’re done, it just means that we scale into it. So we change up the treatment plan. We try to accommodate whatever you can do as far as your budget to get you in a better situation. And then we get there instead of in three months. Maybe we get there in a year, maybe you get there in two years. But the point is- is full transparency, you know what to expect and we’re gonna work with you and get you the best deal that we can possibly get you.

Melissa: I had a similar situation and what I did is, um, I convinced them to take the loan, and then once they have their 401k, they can pay it off without being charged a fee. And, um, we did that twice actually, I did with the patient, because they were in pain and they wanted to get started. So, I mean, that’s an option as well. You can get them into the loan if they qualify and then let them know they can pay it off at any time without being charged a fee.

Bart: Awesome point. And that’s the thing. If they’re one… If they’re… If they wanna do- to look at different sources of financing and you’re dealing with somebody that is already approved, best case scenario, close them, get them approved, and then tell them they can do all the research they want. If they find a better rate somewhere, they can always take the loan out and pay it off. If they want to do- use their 401k or a home equity line, they can still do all of that. And we can go ahead and get them scheduled, lock them in. And that way you’ll know. Because what you want to do is you want to get to an obje- uh, an objection, right? I want a real objection. If they’re gonna walk out without paying any money, if they just say, yeah, okay, I’m in. I’ll go get my 401k money, if they don’t put any money down, it worries me. They don’t give you a credit card, it worries me. And if they don’t have anything, basically closing them, then at the end of the day, they’re kind of walking out without- without being closed.

So you try to close them on the financing. If you can’t do that, try to close them on some type of a deposit and get them scheduled to kinda lock them in. It doesn’t mean they still can’t do the same thing, but ideally, you wanna make sure when they come in to you that they’re not shopping anymore. They feel like, “Hey, I got an awesome deal. I went ahead and committed and the process is over for me. It’s over.” So they’re not looking anywhere else after they get done with you guys. That’s- that’s kind of the goal. Sometimes there- there’s no easy way to handle it if we didn’t close them on the first time and then they went out somewhere else and they just tell you, “Hey, I got a better price,” coz sometimes there’s no way to handle it coz they already committed to the other practice. They already paid. They already put money down. To them, it’s done. They’re just let- kind of letting you know at that point, which [laugh] only one out of maybe 30 will even do that. The rest of them will just ghost you. Right? They just won’t pick up the phone. Okay. Alright. Let’s keep going here.

Woman 1: I have one quick question.

Bart: Yep.

Woman 1: Um, so you mentioned earlier about like explaining how the treatment is customizable and I understand that part, but the thing that I’m having trouble with is mentioning that the fee is customizable because we have a bundle, we have a set fee. And in my practice, my experience is that this fee is the fee in our practice and that’s it.

Bart: Okay. Um, hold on. Sorry, I’m trying to figure out where you are here on the screen coz I’m not seeing you. But anyways, um, when it comes to the fee being set, you’ve got a fee set for a very- for a specific bundle, right?

Woman 1: Right.

Bart: Okay. So… But I mean, what if somebody- what if somebody starts with, you know, a milled PMMA for six months? What if you’re gonna scale them into it? What if you have to break the treatment up into, um, two different parts? What if they do both arches at the same time? Like there’s- there’s perception and then there’s reality, right? So what you- what you have to avoid when you’re talking to a price shopper is the perception that you’re inflexible and the perception that, “Hey, we’re doing the same thing as everybody else. Here’s our price. Take it or leave it.” That’s what you want to avoid. ’cause if the situation is, “Hey, this is what we do every time, here’s our price, take it or leave it,” then it’s really easy process for them. Find out the price, make your decision. There’s nothing else to consider there. Right? But- but that’s- that’s not- that’s not really- that’s not really true, right? Because let’s say they need two arches, you’re telling me that you guys can’t do an all-on-four on the upper and a removable on the lower?

Woman 1: No, we can, but like for the all-on-four, like for example, if they came in just looking for all-on-four on the top, we have that bundle. Yes, there’s different ways to get to the end result, but it- honestly, our, our two-part all-on-four bundle ends up being more than just do- going for the whole thing. So my just question is- is how… I guess what is the point of seeing what they can afford? If I know in my mind like this is our fee and that’s it

Bart: Because you’re- you’re kinda limiting your mind to all-on-four, right? So let’s say you have somebody come in, they need two arches, right? And they tell you, I’ve got really bad credit. Um, I’ve been saving my money for a while, but I need something at 35,000 bucks. And you… And what do you guys charge per arch?

Woman 1: Uh, 29, 995.

Bart: Okay. So someone comes in and they said, “Hey, I’ve got 35,000 in cash. That’s all I have. I don’t have good credit.” Right? When you tell the doctor on the- you’re not gonna send that person away, it’s just 35,000 bucks, right? But you’re probably not going to pitch $60,000 for 2 arches, right? Why would you do that?

Woman 1: Yes.

Bart: If somebody said I got 35,000. So you might… What I’m saying is you might start them on top, right? With an all-on-four and you might have something different on the bottom. You might do a removable on the bottom and let’s say that equals 40,000, that’s really close to their budget. So it doesn’t… Just because they say they want all on four. If they’re in a financial situation that makes all-on-four financially impossible, right? Then our job is to get them as close to the clinical outcome as we possibly can for what they can buy.

Now, that’s where a lot of practices go wrong coz they just look at everything, every situation they see all-on-four. And I don’t care if the patient tells me, “Hey, I want all-on-four,” or, “Hey, I want a denture,” or, “Hey, I want a removable denture,” or, “Hey, I want a crown.” To me, it goes in one ear and kind of out the other because I’m gonna figure out what you want as far as the clinical outcome and then we’re gonna put it together and customize it for you. So if that ends up being two all-on-fours, great. But if you have somebody that is open and honest with you right up front that, “Hey, here’s how much money I have, here’s what I’m expecting, here’s what I can do. Um, I’ve already been to a lot of different practices.” If you come in there and you give them a treatment plan for $60,000, it’s- it’s kind of like, “Hey, it’s 60 grand, take it or leave it.”

You know what I’m saying? When it doesn’t have to be. It doesn’t have to be. It can be an all-on-four on the top and it can be a removable on the bottom. Sometimes you can do an all-on-four with- on the bottom and you can do it, you know, opposing a denture on top. What you don’t wanna do is a lower denture. But there’s different ways that you can customize treatment, right? Treatment in general to get that patient in the best spot. And I think there’s a lot of practices that lose a ton of cases because they’re not listening to what the patient can do from a financial standpoint. And we blow them right out of the water with like some kind of double arch fee when that would’ve been a $25,000 treatment or a $30,000 treatment. We just didn’t show them that we could help them for that. So everyone’s saying, “Hey, all the teeth have to go, you need all-on-four double arch. Here’s what we recommend, here’s your price. But if they can’t do it financially, then what do we do?

So you can control your fee by the material of teeth that you’re going to place. You can also control it with removable. You can also control it with removable versus fixed. And you can also control it with dentures versus implant-supported dentures. So denture, um, a bar overdenture an all-on-four, those are all full arch treatments. Every single one of them is a full arch treatment, right? But in a situation where someone’s already price-shopped two other practices or three other practices, why make the same mistake that they made? Why do it? There was a reason why they didn’t move forward. And they’re kind of honest with you that they didn’t move forward because of price. So I wouldn’t wanna figure out where they’re at in terms of price, what we’re working with, so I can determine if this person’s on the same planet or not.

And uh, and- and what we’re- you know, what we’re looking at. So I can give that information to the doctor. Coz sometimes the information guys, sometimes the information you give to the doctor is, “Hey, this person, they’re a candidate for all-on-four. They’ve already been quoted fees from three other practices from all-on-four. But they didn’t accept any of them because of the money,” right? They didn’t accept any of them. So, um, they were open with me. They said they could forward something between 30 and 40,000 bucks. So we’re gonna have to keep this thing under $40,000 one way shape or form. What do you think about an all-on-four on the top and a removal on the bottom to start, right Or an all-on-four on the top, you know, with, uh, you know, opposing a printed or a PMMA on the bottom that’s fixed or what- what are your thoughts here?

Bart: What could we do that would be the best that we could do for 40,000? You know what I’m saying? So sometimes it’s that conversation upfront so that you can go in and talk to the patient. You guys can have something to close coz if you got somebody expecting 30,000, you quote them 60, you don’t have a shot. They’re just gonna kind of look at, at you and say, uh, all right, let me think about it. And they probably won’t even be open to submit for financing coz they know in their mind that they’re not gonna do that. Does that make sense?

Woman 1: It does.

Bart: So you’re not thinking… In the all-on-four, here’s the thing, you’re not thinking all-on-four in the first 10. You’re not thinking about all-on-four. You’re just thinking about, hey, what type of clinical outcomes this person looking for and how do I get them there? Then the next thought is, okay, if I’m dealing with some type of a hard stop from a financial point of view, I want to know that it- what that is coz then the question is how do I get them as close to their clinical outcome while staying within the hard stop financial, um, parameters that they’ve given me? And that is kinda like your guaranteed sale, right? Like, hey, I know this guy’s got 20 grand in cash, so I’m gonna get something for 20 grand. But you know that if they give you 20 grand, you can probably get them for 25 or 30, which is probably the primary recommendation. But you’re certainly not gonna take somebody that says, “Hey, I got 30- I got 20 grand in cash. That’s what I can pay. I’ve got really bad credit.” You’re not gonna present them with a $60,000 treatment plan. That’s just silly, right? Because then they’re thinking, did you hear me? I said, I have 20, $60,000. Right? I can’t do it. So let’s- let’s keep going with this. You guys are gonna see where- where we get to here.

Doctor: Okay. And you were looking… Were you looking for more just like function or were you looking at that cut?

Bart: I’m just gonna back it up just a hair so you can- so you can see kind of what the, uh, what the transition is.

Patient: I think Nuvia or something like that. [inaudible] right like, um, Westwood, um, Kirkwood but they do the one-day treatment. One of my friends went and had it done.

Doctor: Oh, okay.

Patient: And I liked that they did.

Doctor: Okay.

Patient: So I went over there and got their prices. Then I went to another place. She quoted me like 25. But I’m just trying to see, you know, in between what’s the best price for me.

Doctor: Okay. Okay. And you were looking… Were you looking for more just like function or were you looking at that cut? Because you said you really liked how your friend…

Patient: Right.

Doctor: …has done. So were you looking for like that- more of that cosmetic wow factor or the function, the use of them?

Patient: Well…

Doctor: I had [inaudible]

Patient: Both. Both.

Doctor: Both. You looking for both. Okay.

Patient: The fill… You know, I want a natural look, but, you know… I know it take a while for the filler once they take your teeth outside, to come back, you know, make- the teeth that they put in make you feel natural.

Doctor: Yeah. You usually get like a temporary that you would be able to wear in the meantime. So you’re not going around without any [inaudible].

Patient: Well he- he- he didn’t have no cheaper.

Doctor: Oh he didn’t?

Patient: No, they pulled all his teeth like on a Monday. I think he went back like that Tuesday afternoon and put his teeth in.

Doctor: Oh, okay. That was the one off of Westheimer?

Patient: Yes.

Doctor: Okay. Well…

Bart: Now… Alright.

Doctor: Let me…

Patient: So I… [inaudible] like take three months, let say it take three months for him to um, settle for [inaudible] six months, you gotta wait for the screws to settle and all that. I dunno.

Bart: So he’s kind of mistaken here, right? Because he just said it takes three months for him to settle. So yeah, he was in a temporary. What he thinks of a temporary is a denture. What his friend told him is, no, I didn’t have any denture. They put the teeth right on the implants right off the bat and I just had to wait three days to get my other teeth or three months. Make sense? So what I think what he’s thinking is a- as a temporary is a denture that has nothing to do with the implants, but, you know, they’re not going straight to zirconia. Um…

Lisa: Actually, Nuvia does go straight to the zirconia.

Woma 1: Yeah, they do. They go straight.

Lisa: They do. My girlfriend works there, she’s the treatment coordinator.

Bart: But in this situation, so he just said that his friend said that it took three months.

Lisa: For the implants to heal and they still have to be on soft food diet while they’re in their zirconia, but they tell them it’s gonna take three or four months for the implants to integrate, but they have to stay on the soft food diet while they’re in their zirconia.

Bart: Well, I mean they gotta do that whether they’re in zirconia or temporary, you know? It’s just… Huh. You know, it’s… Those are- those are two very, very different things. So here’s the thing. If he- if his friend did go to Nuvia coz he- he- this is his- this guy’s third consultation, right? So if he did go to Nuvia and you know, hey, Nuvia is going straight to zirconia, well I think that’s actually easier to kind of sell against. You know what I mean? I think there’s a really good case to be made, uh, for not doing that right up front. There’s also a really good case to be made for why somebody would want to do that. You guys tell me, why would a company want to go straight to zirconia straight from surgery? What would that do? From a business perspective, why would they want… From a clinical perspective, why would they want to do it? How does it increase the success or the probability of- of long-term success by going straight to zirconia? How does it give you a better shot at it clinically?

Irene: It doesn’t, but I think what- their goal is maybe to just finish that case right there and then and not have to worry about the patient anymore, if- if that makes sense.

Bart: It makes all the sense in the world. But the point is, clinically there’s no benefit.

Irene: Right.

Lisa: There’s no benefit.

Bart: The only benefit is it benefits you with the sales pitch, right? Because

Lisa: Right. I think it’s more for their marketing. It’s a marketing [inaudible]

Bart: Of course, it’s. It’s marketing, but it also cuts out how many visits, right? So it completely eliminates the visits to put the zirconia in, right? It- it completely eliminates all that. So you’re basically done right off the bat and you can send them out. So it’s a really good way… It sounds good to the patient to get them to say yes. From a business standpoint, it’s much more profitable because it requires fewer visits, less time, which is more money, yet they still charge the same as everybody else,

Lisa: Right? And I live in Houston and what, and so… I live in Houston and I’m around the corner not too far from this Nuvia on Westheimer and how… So I get a lot of Novia people over here. And how I just sell against it is our temporary is we allow you to make changes and revisions while you’re in your healing set. That if you- we took you straight to zirconia, that’s it. What if you don’t like it? What if the fit… What if I start using these, what ifs would you prefer to be able to have the option to make changes and revisions to your- your prosthesis before we go to the final? And if they say yes, then I’m like, okay, well Dr. Vega’s gonna make sure that you love it before we go to the final- to your final prosthesis.

Bart: Yeah. And listen, these are all things where when you guys are in the first 10, you’re going to have to listen to them and you put them in the Rolodex and you and- and you wait for the right time. Okay? Because what can happen sometimes in the first 10 when someone says something like this, we can have a tendency to pounce on them right then and there, and the whole- all of a sudden the entire consultation takes a turn and we’re really discussing things that should be discussed in the third 10. Because remember the first 10, I’m not assuming that we’re even going to recommend all-on-four. I’m not assuming that they’re a perfect candidate for it. I’m not assuming anything until the doctor looks at them. My job is information gathering in seed planning and qualifying at this stage. Does that make sense?

Where are they now? Where do they want to be as far as expectations? And you know that the frame that you’re going to use in this instance, but when it comes down to making the presentation, you guys are selling against somebody like Nuvia. You know, you can ask them, say, hey, going straight to a zirconia teeth, right? Instead of going through the provisional, what kind of clinical benefit do you think that offers you? And they’ll say, oh, I don’t know. And say, listen, I can’t think of one benefit, right? Because from a cosmetic standpoint, if you don’t have a temporary, you do a smile design, put you in a temporary, what if you don’t like the way that it looks? You can’t alter zirconia. It’s done and it’s done, right? Okay. So what if- what if- what if it takes your bone a little bit longer time to heal and integrate with the implants?

You go ahead and load zirconia on there. That’s a final, right? What- what’s the advantage to that? From a clinical perspective, there is none. So… And from a- from a patient satisfaction in terms of the way it looks, there is no advantage. So the only advantage is that it saves you time. But here’s the thing, it also saves them time. So why would a company do something that has no clinical advantage but it has the advantage of saving them time and money? Why? Could it be because they make more profit? The profits irrelevant and the prices irrelevant when it comes to the results, the most important thing is that this thing’s done the right way, it’s done one time, done the right way, and it lasts, right? That your results last as long as possible. You function properly, it looks exactly like you want it to, and you don’t have an issue down the road. That’s worth more than anything coz you’re gonna be living with these things for a long time. Does that make sense? But all that stuff can happen when you close. Those are all like bullets that are going in your gun coz you’re gonna show a better deal, you’re gonna show more predictability, and you’re also gonna plant in their head that not everybody gets good results, that these cases are complicated, and what’s a big deal? What’s three months? You’re gonna be in these things for 30 years.

It’s worth it to give you every opportunity to have a great result. But all that stuff has to happen in the third 10 coz if it happens right now, you guys are gonna run out of time and you won’t be able to- you’ll kind of get in a situation where you guys are making a recommendation and doing a close all before they’ve ever seen the doctor. And that’s not what we want to do. If we determine we need to pre-qualify, then we’re gonna pre-qualify, figure out how much money they have down, and if it’s less than 10,000, we’re gonna run them through proceeding, CareCredit and everything else in the world to find out if there’s any money there. And if it’s a price shopper with a specific budget, what we wanna find out is why did they not move forward with the other two. What was holding them up and do they have a hard budget?

Are they a cash payer? Are they looking to do payments? If they are looking for payments, how much do they wanna put down so that we have some information to go in the second 10? That’s all we’re trying to do. I’m not making a treatment recommendation. I’m not selling all-on-four. I’m not doing any of that. I’m just trying to figure out their price shopping. Do they have a hard budget or not? And sometimes they’re price shopping and they don’t have a hard budget. They could easily go in and pay 30 grand an arch. They just didn’t necessarily like the price. They just didn’t know if that was the best price that they could get so they’re shopping it. And there are other price shoppers that absolutely have- because of credit challenges, they have kind of a hard cap in terms of what they can pay.

So that’s all we’re trying to do in the first 10. Do I pre-qualify or is this a price shopper? If it’s a price shopper, um, is it a price shopper with a hard budget or not? That’s it because you want the doctor to have that information in the second 10. Okay, here we go.

Doctor: Okay. And would you say… Like, do you have an idea of a budget that you’re looking at? I know you mentioned a previous quote before. Is that’s kind of the same price range you’re looking at or seeing what a…

Patient: I’m just seeing what it’s right now.

Doctor: Okay. Alright.

Bart: He said, I’m just trying to see what it is. So she’s got the right idea here. Okay? But there’s a way to kind of get someone to answer this. If you say, do you have a budget in mind? That might be one of the most difficult things for someone to answer. Right? Why? Why is that difficult for them to answer? Coz there’s too many possibilities.

Jenny: I think…

Bart: There’s too many- there’s too many numbers. We didn’t hone them in enough, right? Instead of saying, okay, so just so I’m straight, you went to Nuvia and you had a consultation. They give you a quote for an all-on-four and then you went to another place and they said same thing, you need an all-on-four, but they quoted you $25,000. Was that just for the upper or just for the lower or what? Did they quote you 25 a piece? What was that? And they’ll say, oh no, that was 25 for the upper and then it was gonna be another 25 for lower. Okay. So that was 50,000. Ad Nuvia, did they say that, okay, we’re gonna quote you this for the upper and this for lower or did they do the whole mouth in one fee? Which one was it? Because I wanna see like is 25 the- on the lower end or is that on the higher end? He says, oh no, Nuvia said that they could do it- they could do both for 22. And say, oh, okay.

So just curious, so one gave you 25 1 gave you 22. Um, what- what was the reason why you didn’t just move forward when you got the 22,000 per arch since that’s less? Is it strictly about finding the lowest price or was there something you didn’t like about it? Was it something just kind of give you a feeling, oh I’m not sure that I want to have it done here. You know what- what was the reason for not moving forward right then? And you kind of start to walk into the discussion. You get them talking about a financial situation and tipping their cards instead of directly asking them what’s your budget. Right? So once they told me, oh, it’s 22. And I said, okay, well why didn’t you move forward with the 22? Was it just coz you’re not sure about the price? Was it that the price wasn’t as low as you wanted it to be? Or was there some other kind of reason, like you just kind of got a feeling, nah, I don’t really like this doctor that much, I don’t know if I want to have it done.

Like what was the main reason why you didn’t move forward at that time given that that was less than- than the 25? See what they say, right? And then depending on what they say, let’s say that he goes, well, yeah it was 22,000 per arch, but you know, I’d only gotten two quotes. So I just wanted to get more to see what I can do as far as, you know, getting the best deal that I possibly could. Um, and say, oh, okay, well it sounds like you know, you’ve done some research. Like I said, when it comes down to all-on-four and doing full arch treatments, there’s a lot of different ways that we can do this to give you the best result and kind of customize it for- for where you want to be. Now I know you- you might not have a specific budget in mind, but if you had kind of a ballpark that you were looking to stay within, coz I have some people… There’s two different types of people that come in here.

Some people come in, they go, “Hey, I can do whatever I need to do as long as I can make payments.” And there’s other types of people that say, “Hey, I don’t really wanna make payments. I’m gonna be cash pay.” And typically patients that are cash pay, they’ll say, Hey, I need to see what’s the best that you can do for this. And I’ve got, you know, 40,000 total for the whole mouth. Or they’ll say, “Hey, I’ve got 25,000.” Wi- with us, it’s not like a take it or leave it. Like, “Hey this is gonna be 50 grand, take it or leave it. You do 50 or nothing,” right? With us, you come in, if you do have some type of ballpark that you’re looking to stay within, go ahead and tell me what ballpark you’re looking to be in and I’m gonna relay that information to the doctor so that we can give you the best treatment that we possibly can and also make sure that it’s something that you can afford.

Because we can talk about the best of the best all day long. But if it’s impossible for you from a financial standpoint, what’s the point? Right? So give me an idea where you’re looking to be. So if 50,000 was too much and let’s say 44,000 was too much, what are you looking to get to financially, right? Are you looking at, hey, somewhere in the $40,000 price range, somewhere in the 35,000? It doesn’t have to be a specific number. I’m not gonna hold you to it, but I just wanna know from a financial standpoint, where you stand and what you’re looking for and we’ll customize it and we’re gonna give you the best deal. But what ballpark are we in? 30, 35, 40? Like what- what can you do here? And you kinda lead them into it instead of just asking, Hey, what’s your budget? Because all I… I would say out of a hundred times you asked that question, I bet you 99 times you don’t get an answer. What,

Woman: What does your schedule look in the near future? So we [inaudible] finish up?

Bart: That makes sense?

Woman: [inaudible] back.

Bart: Do you guys have any questions on that? Coz that’s the… Again, somebody comes in, they’re a third opinion. I’m thinking, okay, why are they a third opinion? Is it because they got declined for financing and they don’t have any money? Or is it because they can’t get approved with financing and their cash pay and the other quotes were way too much? Or is it just simply because they- they need to get multiple prices so they know what fair market value is? Who is this person? And all of my questions and how I frame them are trying to hone in on which one that is coz there are plenty of patients that come in and they price shop. They could afford 50,000, they can afford 75,000. They’ve got money. Doesn’t mean that they won’t price shop.

Woman 1: So Bart.

Bart: Yep.

Woman 1: Real quick, [laugh] because I’m the one in this video. Um, from- from the… He was my very first all-on-four consult going through with this process. And from the moment I introduced myself to the front and I asked him how he was, his first response was, “I’m just here to get a price.” So I was throughout the rest of the consult, you know, trying so hard to kind of get engagement from him or at least get some openness. In the second 10, he does good with Dr. Smith. And then it was kind of like when it came back to my part, he just would shut down again. So it was from the moment of the introduction, he made it very clear what he was there for that I was trying to avoid to get straight to the point of and follow through the process.

Bart: Yep. A hundred percent. And you’re not- you’re not doing anything wrong here, but what you wanna know, right? Is why didn’t he move forward with the other two?

Woman 1: Right.

Bart: That’s- that’s- that’s what you wanna know, right? And, you know, you want to disguise this. Instead of asking, “Hey, what’s your budget?” You gonna say listen… So you gotta… Let- let me just make sure I’m correct here. Because he didn’t tell you what Nuvia quoted him, did he?

Woman 1: Uh, he did up in the front and then he mentioned this other one. And then since him… It was like he was our first consult and since him, it’s like every other patient has brought them up and been around the same price point of like a- like a 35, 40,000,

Bart: 35, 40,000 for what?

Woman 1: Yeah, for the all-on-for. They’ll be like, oh, like it’ll be… oh, they told me 30,000. Or the next person might be, oh, they told me 40,000 or the next person would be, oh yeah, I was told 25. And then that like- that’s it. [laugh]. So it was- it was- it… I… We’re kind of hard trying to get a feel and they’re all mentioning the same thing.

Bart: Yeah.

Woman 1: I can get it done in one day. That’s what I want.

Bart: So and they’re saying 35,000 for both arches or for one?

Woman 1: Both. Both.

Bart: And then sometimes they’re saying 25,000 per arch?

Woman 1: Well I’ll ask them coz they’re here for both. But then they just say flat 25. I go, okay, except for upper lower. And they just, oh, it’s 25. Like it’s… I- it’s almost like as if they don’t know. And I guess they do consults. My guy yesterday said he was quoted 25 and he did his consult over the phone. He hadn’t even had an appointment yet with them. So he [inauudible]

Bart: 25- 25 for one arch?

Woman 1: That’s what we’re assuming is one.

Bart: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Woman 1: [inaudible] both.

Bart: Nah, no, they’re not doing 20… They’re not doing, you know, $12,500 for an arch of zirconia. You know what I mean? Like that’s probably not the case. But again, that’s why right up front, the first thing to establish is that prices could be all over the map depending on what material they use and how they’re doing the case, how they’re sequencing it out, right? They could come in with a really- price that you think is really low, but six months later you’re gonna have to upgrade to something different and the price is gonna be the price. So the most important thing is we know what your expectations are is an outcome and we’re treating you to get to a certain outcome, not treating you to get to a certain price. Having said all that, I’m curious, you went to one place and it was 25 grand in Arch. You went to another place, it was Nuvia, right? Now, did they quote you… Was- was it higher or lower than 25 in Arch? Just curious. Oh, it was lower. So what were they? At 22, 23 an aArch? Something like that? Yeah, they were actually at 22. Okay, so let me ask you, I mean, you’re coming in, you- you want to get a price, we’re gonna give you a price, we’re gonna give you the best deal. But if you’re over there when they keep it at 22, why didn’t you move forward at that time? And ask them why they didn’t move forward.

Woman 1: Okay.

Bart: Right? Why… What was holding you up from moving forward up until now? And let’s see what… I would be interested to hear what he would say. Right? And you can always fall back. You- you guys always fall back on the fact that everybody calls it all-on-four and everybody does it different. Everybody calls it all on four and people price it different. It’s normal. Why? Because all-on-four isn’t one thing that’s locked. It’s not anything specific. It’s just a full arch option anchored by implants. And how many times does someone call it all-on-four and they end up doing five or six implants? Do they say, oh, this is gonna be all on five, it’s gonna be all-on-six? No, they don’t say that, right? It’s a fixed prosthetic sitting on implants. How many? Whatever, right? What material of the teeth? Whatever. It could be anything.

So the most important thing is- is the material, is the number of implants, is the protocol and the treatment, how we sequence it in line with what you’re expecting. That’s number one, right? Then if we’re dealing with an issue where we have a very specific price point that someone can afford, we- we can customize the treatment, sequence it out differently to try to work within your budget although the outcome will change. So I’m curious, why didn’t you move forward when you got the lower price? What type of price point are you looking for? Are you someone that’s gonna be cash pay? Are you looking for payments? Just kind of talk to me and all this information’s good for the doctor coz I wanna make this realistic for you. There’s no reason for you… If we’re your third consultation, there’s no reason for you to need a fourth. Let’s just figure it out. The price component is a big component to the whole thing. So I’ll work with you. Just let’s- tell me what you’re here looking for. If 44 for the whole mouth was too much, what are you looking for? Something more around 40, 35. Like what are you- what are you looking for? What can you do? I won’t hold you to it, just get me in the ballpark

Dr. Wassel: Question, Bart.

Bart: Yep. ?

Dr. Wassel: What if he says like he got the 22 and he says, alright, I got 25 and then after that, I got 22. And then his answer is, well, I’m just trying to see if yours is gonna be lower than that. If your price is lower and I’m just looking for another price.

Bart: Okay. So then what he’s saying is that price is the most important thing to him?

Dr. Wassel: Right.

Bart: Okay. And anytime someone asks you, “Hey, how much do you charge for something?” If we’re in a negotiation, which we’re not yet, by the way, we’re not… I’m not gonna steal the doctor’s thunder yet, but my goal is to get a number out of this guy because otherwise he says, well I just wanna see, you know, what your price is. How do you know that… Like, like what are we trying to hit here? How do you know? Because I could give him a price, say, oh okay, we can beat it by 2000. He goes, oh, okay, I’ll think about it.

Dr. Wassel: Right.

Bart: You beat it by 4,000. Oh, okay, I’ll think about it. At the end of the day, the ideal thing is for me to get a number from him right now. So he’s saying, “Hey, I need to know how much you charge.” You say, listen, how much we charge is predicated on two things. Number one, we’re gonna treatment plan to get to a specific outcome.

Woman 2: Oh yeah.

Bart: Right. This is what it requires to hit this outcome. And that’s based on what you want as far as function, aesthetic, maintenance, and longevity. Okay? That’s gonna be the treatment, right? But sometimes we can get there in three days, sometimes we can get there in a month, sometimes we have to get there in a year, sometimes two years depending on what the financial situation is of our patients. A lot of practices, they say, “Hey, I know this is what you need. Here’s our price. Take it or leave it.” Take them out the door even though they can’t afford it. We don’t do that. So if you’re telling me, “Hey, this was too much for me, this was too much heartburn, I can’t do it,” right? Are you- are you looking for something that you’re gonna be paying cash? Are you looking for monthly payments? And get me in the ballpark of somebody, say, “Hey, this is the ballpark that I’m looking to be in. What’s the best I can get for this ballpark?” Just get me close, right? I’m not going to hold you to a number, but if you say, but give me an idea in terms of your ballpark, you looking for something more along the lines of 30,000, 35, 40,000 for the whole mouth. Like what can you do from a financial standpoint? And let’s go from there. I won’t hold you to it coz what the treatment coordinator’s trying to do is get a dollar from them. What they’re trying to do is get a dollar from you.

Dr. Wassel: Yeah.

Bart: So that’s the first thing, is figure that out and get them to give you a number or a ballpark. Now we’re not making a recommendation, but you are going to relay that information to the doctor. So if the doctor knows, hey this person’s got 35 grand, it’s cash pay, they’re not gonna get financed for anything else, they need double arch, at least the doctor has that information and they can say, listen, here’s what the expectation is. You want a 10 out of 10 in terms of function, aesthetics, maintenance, and longevity. They also told me we’re working with a budget of 35,000. So my job is to create a plan that can get you to a 10, 10, 10, and 10 over a period of time, starting with $35,000. Is that where we’re at? Okay, cool. Right? Here’s how we would do it.

But you have to take that information into account with the treatment plan because if you don’t, you’re just- you’re gonna blow them straight out of the water and they’re just gonna say, let me think about it. They’re gonna go to the next practice coz most practices, they didn’t do it. They won’t ask the patient… When the patient says, okay, that’s too much. They won’t ask them what can they afford. Coz they don’t care. Especially big implant centers. Big implant centers don’t change up the treatment plan coz they’re gonna sell all on four to everybody. Period. That’s it. That’s all they do, right? With you guys, you can do it differently. And there’s also something else I want you guys to have in your back pocket. Anytime you’re in a negotiation, and this is so dumb that nobody does this, but I want you guys to do this or at least talk to your doctor about offering this. If you have a situation where someone’s a candidate and they’re gonna do upper and lower at one time and it’s full arch fixed, let’s say you’re charging 25 grand, you should be able to give them that treatment at least for 46,000. 47,000 for both their arches, if they’re doing them all in the same appointment without even blinking.

Why? Right? It’s because your profit margin’s so much better when you do two arches at one time, rather than them come in and do one arch and then leave and come back and do another arch, you’re losing money because it’s- it doubles the amount of time almost, right? If I can get the doctor to do two arches at once, the next time that he would be doing the second arch, he’s doing another arch on another patient. So again, it’s bundling. What we wanna do is financially incentivize people to do the most amount of dental work in the minimum amount of time. If they wanna break the arches up and do one now and one later, well, that’s 50 grand. You have to charge retail. But if we’re gonna do 50,000 in one appointment, we’re gonna do both arches in one appointment, why not go ahead and build something in to show them financially that we’re gonna reward them for that? And sometimes that alone… If you’re in a- a price-competitive situation with another practice on a double arch case, that alone, you guys will win that battle coz almost nobody does that.

Does that make sense? You’re- you guys understand how you’re- how you can give a discount without losing any money as opposed to doing one arch and then another? You’ll still have more profit left over by doing both of them at the same time, right? So maximize the amount of work that’s done in one visit. And- and again, if you can’t do it because you guys don’t have sedation, it- you’re still gonna be more profitable bringing in, you know, a-a nurse, an RNA to come in and do sedation for you just for that day so that you can get both arches done at the same time than breaking it up and doing one today and one in two weeks coz it’s not the money that you’re bringing in in that time period. It’s the money that you can’t bring in. You can’t schedule new money, right? So work it into your bundle. Talk to your doctor and say, hey, if we’re charging 25 an arch, what can we charge for them if they do both arches at the same time, not 50. Give me 10% off the second arch. So 2,500 bucks off to do both of them at the same time. No one else is gonna do that. That alone, you guys can win in a competitive situation without losing anything. Make sense? Alright, so let me summarize here. Okay? So…

Dr. Nahlah: Quick question. I’m sorry.

Bart: No, go ahead.

Dr. Nahlah: Um, so I got a number from a patient, but how do I go about it if I can’t meet that- I can’t meet them where they wanna be?

Bart: What’s the number?

Dr. Nahlah: 45 [laugh]

Bart: 45 For what?

Dr. Nahlah: For both top and bottom. But the lowest I could go is… We charge 56 for top and bottom. So I gave him a di… I said I could do 10% cash payment. So it’s at 50 but he wants at 45. And I can’t.

Woman 3: [inaudible] [laugh].

Bart: Well, what I would do if… Did they give you that number in the first 10?

Dr. Nahlah: No, actually he was happy, he left. I’ve been in touch with him and um, and then he kept asking for more discount and I said, where do you wanna be? He said 45 for top and bottom. And I didn’t give him a yes or a no. Um, and I asked him if I can get you close to 45, would you start right away? And then he said he is busy with work, but yes, he would wanna start soon.

Bart: Okay. Is he cash pay or financing?

Dr. Nahlah: Cash pay.

Bart: Okay. So right off the bat with cash pay, you’re saving how much versus if he was going with like a proceed?

Dr. Nahlah: Yeah.

Bart: How much do you save right off the bat? Tell me percentage-wise.

Dr. Nahlah: Five to fifteen percent.

Bart: Okay. Five to fifteen. So right off the bat, you guys are already giving that discount to everybody that moves forward with financing, right?

Dr. Nahlah: Yes.

Bart: Okay. So you’re not losing anything on a cash payer, it’s just like he’s doing finance if you’re getting all your money upfront. So let’s say that the average fee’s probably gonna be 9% or 10%, you know what I’m saying? So on 56,000, you’re looking at 5,600 before you guys actually give a real discount. So you are- you’re- you’re at- you’re at 50, he’s at 45, right? Now, how much is it gonna cost you in marketing dollars to recreate that person sitting in front of you?

Dr. Nahlah: Couple thousand.

Bart: Yeah, another couple thousand. So you’re at 48 without giving any discount ’cause you’re out- that- that 2000 you’re gonna have to pay anyways. In the 10%, you would go ahead- you guys wouldn’t blink at extending that to somebody. This guy, if he said, you know what, okay fine I’m in for 53 but I want to finance it. And he goes through with proceed. You guys would do that, right?

Dr. Nahlah: Yes.

Bart: And you would go ahead and pay the 8, 9, 10% fee right off the top straight to proceed. So when you consider that he’s cash and you’re not, not doing financing and you consider what it costs marketing-wise to get another person like that in the chair and you consider that it’s a double arch, which is way more profitable than a single arch, well now we’re talking about something, a dollar amount that’s not even material. Ten percent’s 5,600, another $2,000, right? You’re at $7,600. So you’re already under 50 and he’s already at 45, you think you come back to him and say 7- 47.5, you don’t think this guy’s gonna do it? And how much are you out at 47.5? You’re just not. You’re just not So cash pay, you have way more room than you do if somebody was going with proceed to- to work them- to work it out with the fees. Coz I’m thinking, hey, they’re with proceeds. Sometimes you guys are paying up to 14% depending on what their credit is. So cash pay and- and someone’s out… Plus he’s telling you 45. That’s not his… That’s not the end all be all 45. You can probably get him at 50, you know what I mean? Um, but I wouldn’t- I… You can’t lose a case over like a couple of thousand bucks. You are already way ahead coz it’s cash.

Dr. Nahlah: Yeah.

Bart: Right? Because let’s say even- even if they were a proceed, if they asked you for a better deal, you would still give them 10% off, right? Is that what you said? You could do 10%?

Dr. Nahlah: Uh, 10% we do with cash payments.

Bart: Okay. And that’s what you told you could do, 10%?

Dr. Nahlah: Yes. Which is…

Bart: Okay, so…

Dr. Nahlah: Which would put him at 50, but would wanna do 45. But I talked to doctor and he said that it’s a lot of work, it’s a- it’s a- a risky case, so he would want- he couldn’t go lower.

Bart: Well, he’s out 2000 bucks anyways from marketing. So- so at the- at- at the end of the day, if you already offered 10%, I’d say you can get to 48 and it doesn’t- it’s six to one-half dozen to the other. You know what I mean? If you give up the 2000 bucks to do the case, you’re generating $48,000 in income as opposed to giving up to $2,000 and generating zero. 2000 bucks is coming out no matter what.

Dr. Nahlah: I’ll have another talk with him. Thank you [laugh].

Bart: Yeah. Don’t lose them over 2 or 3000 bucks though when- when you got them that close. Nail them down and say, hey listen, I don’t know, you’re … Without changing the treatment plan, without starting to look at it and take this way and that way to get- to get the price lower and compromising your clinical outcome, you have to understand we’re already giving you a big discount here. I already showed it to you. You’re getting something big. So without me doing that… I’m gonna have to go to the doctor. I don’t know if I can do it or not, but if I can do it, I need to know that you’re not- that- that you can- that you’re ready to pay.

Dr. Nahlah: Yeah.

Bart: Right? So if I can get it down- I know you want it at 45, I think it’s- fat chance that I can get it there. If I can get you down to 48, right? Can you commit pay, cash, payment, and schedule today? If I can do it, I’ll talk to the doctor. I don’t know if I can, but if I can, I just need a commitment from you,

Dr. Nahlah: Okay.

Bart: And close them. And then you’ll at least find out if this guy’s messing with you or not.

Dr. Nahlah: Okay.

Bart: What’s that?

Dr. Nahlah: I’ll have another talk with Doctor [laugh].

Bart: Just lay out the numbers, right? Just lay out the numbers, you know, because there’s certain people, like I said, say, all right, well what if somebody comes in and it’s a 56,000 treatment plan and they’ve got bad credit and we’re paying proceed 15%. Are we gonna do that? So if we would do it on that patient, why wouldn’t I offer 15% consideration to someone doing cash? Why is that one more important than this one?

Dr. Nahlah: Okay. Thank you.

Bart: Alright. Okay guys, so just to recap, number one, price shoppers establish all-on-four is not one thing. Everybody does it differently. Everybody charges differently, but it depends on the material of the teeth, how they’re doing the protocol, what technique they’re using. There’s a lot of different factors that go into the price. Number one, it’s not all the same thing. Okay? Um, and then number two, is this a price shopper that’s on a- that- that doesn’t have the ability to get approved in their cash pay and they have a specific dollar amount? Or is this a price shopper just looking for the best deal and they can pretty much pay for whatever. You’re trying to put them in one of those two buckets, then you give that information to the doctor in the second 10 and you go from there. Get as much information out of them about those previous consults because you’re gonna use all of those when you make your financial presentation in the third 10. You’re not gonna do it in the first 10 coz we haven’t even made a treatment recommendation with the doctor yet. But in the third 10 you’re gonna do it.

And if they act desperate, which this guy’s not acting desperate, but if they act desperate, you know, that you- you probably need to go ahead and pre-qualify this person. Go ahead and run them through financing and make sure that they’re financially qualified to buy something. Cool? Alright, guys. Hey, if you’re not on the schedule for the power sessions, make sure you get on them. The next one we’re doing is closing styles. So different ways to close based on what we’ve heard in the consultations. Um, it’s a really, really, really important one. It’s a tough day. You learn a lot of different scripts, but it’s really good. So if you guys haven’t been to one, you definitely want to come to the closing styles and then look at the schedule for the year and RSVP. Especially those of you that are on the West Coast, we’ve got two on the West Coast this year. Make sure that you guys get RSVP because they’re- they’re gonna fill up. Cool? Alright, guys, have a good day and I will, uh, I’ll catch you guys on the next call. You need something? Give us a call. Go close somebody. Okay? Well, and when it comes… If the doctors don’t wanna give that extra little bit off, just do it anyways and ask for forgiveness, not permission.

Melissa: That’s right. [laugh].

Bart: Hey, [inaudible] bite my head off. I just made you $46,000. I’m the worst. Fine.

Ashley: That’s actually what I do so go with that.

Bart: Forgiveness nor permission. Okay. Bye.

Jenny: [inaudible] and I’m just like no.

Ghazal: Thank you.

Bart: Alright, bye-bye.


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